This is more a mental exercise than anything else. I think the game is really really broken at or above 3000. But I want to see how the "no magic" approach works here, because the effect of it is lessened the higher points you play. On the flip side it makes panicking a much bigger problem. Mostly cause you'll be more spread out and prone to panic. Anyway...
Lord
Warlord
Dragonhelm
Shield
103
Well there's not much I can really do for my general. So a 3+/6++ and a 2++ vs fire is gonna have to do you sir.
Heroes
Chieftan
Shield
BSB
The Storm Banner
122
Having the option to activate this is always gonna be nice. Especially if there's flyers I need to deal with.
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Warlock Engineer
15
Pretty standard fare really. I'm quite light on heroes. But you'll see why.
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Banner of Discipline
Warpfire Thrower
165
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
Keep scrolling down...
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
Almost there...
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
Righty, here we are. Yeah, that's a lot of Stormvermin with Warpfire Throwers isn't it. Would you like to be looking at 12 Warpfire Throwers across the board? Especially with the artillery backup these lads have. I didn't think so.
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
These are my favourite redirector. Small footprint but not that likely to cause panic because they very rarely get wiped out to a man. It's nice. In addition in 3k I'd expect a lot of warmachines (>10 from empire) and these are great to run straight at warmachine crews. Really, give it a go.
Special
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
What's better than 3 units of gutter runners? Like I say, I expect war machines to be all over the shop in 3k, these guys help mitigate that problem. I love these guys to pieces. :3
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Oh jesus christ... That's a LOT of power. Warp Lightning Cannons are silly good for their points.
So how does this army play. Well, in Watchtower you get to do 12D6 S5 hits to units in the Watchtower on turn one (lol). But seriously, against a combatty army you march the redirectors up, with the WFTs about 8" or so behind. Then you open fire. Your redirectors die but they buy you another turn of shooting. Gutter Runners and WLCs of course just do their thing.
Against a shooty army you keep your WFTs behind the vermin for hard cover (or BLOS, Stormvermin are big skaven) while advancing up toward their gunline. Chances are, with the stormbanner especially, they're not gonna be able to stop 120 stormvermin AND 12 Warpfire throwers from making it there.
So aye, what do we reckon? :P Personally I think that this kind (the no magic one) of army works better at higher point levels, because, like I said, magic has it's effect lessened. Hell, the 4k version of this would just have another 70 stormvermin with warpfire throwers in attendance. Man I wanna play that army. Lol.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
Read more!
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Sunday 31 October 2010
Warpfire Throwers and Poisoned Wind Mortars.
My thoughts on the matter. In my opinion these are easily the two best weapon teams, and it's a tough call, so we're going to go through the pros and cons of the two of em.
Now as I'm sure you've noticed (you better have) I have a new army with 9 weapon teams. I'm having a rough time deciding what should be what. At the moment it's 9 warpfires just for raw hitting power. However that may well change. To the pros and cons!
So let's start with:
THE WARPFIRE THROWER
Huh, this age old classic. Right let's have a look at the pros:
- Very, very damaging. A direct hit against let's say a block of 25-30 infantry will usually leave them with less than 2 ranks. As in less than 10 models. It's a sickeningly powerful weapon. Strength 5 templates. Ouch. But that's not all, this monster also does D3 wounds, which means not even monsters and ogres are safe. This is truly a weapon you can fire at just about anything and expect to worry it. Having my army based around these means there's few threats that wont simply just drop dead as they come close. I mean, a good hit on a unit of ogres and you're still looking at about 8 wounds. That's one shot! Consider this thing only costs 70pts. Man.
- Accurate. Yup, out of the weapon teams this thing is the most accurate. It's very easy to get hits with WFTs. It's rare you over or undershoot if you're making shots at the right range and have positioned correctly. If you fire in the right direction most of the time you're gonna hit. And you're gonna hit a lot.
- Autopanic. Yeah it automatically causes panic too. Cause it really needs ithat upgrade?! How often will these things not cause panic? Whatever. Lol.
- Decent range. Your average amount of distance you can expect to cover with these things is 12" to 14". Which is (ideally) where you want the back of the unit you're firing at to be. However if it means not getting charged next turn you can make do with "just" getting around 13 hits. Lol. However when these things are in amongst your lines chances are you wont be able to get far enough quick enough.
- Stand and shoot. No, fucking really. They can stand and fucking shoot. More bullshit please? What's that unit of 30 empire swordsmen/T3 whatever? I can't hear you over the sound of you all dying a burny fiery death.
Cons:
- Static. This is the big one. It's a move or fire weapon. This means you'll usually get one or two good shots off with em. Those being the turn you get to fire, and your stand and shoot reaction. Now admittedly (as I said) if either of those hits you're looking at serious damage, but if you compare this to the mobility of the Poisoned Wind Mortar it doesn't quite stand up. I mean, sure you can move it and not fire to set up some good shots later (in particular, having a WFT in every direction around a unit works, as they're going to spend forever catching them all). But this is nothing compared to the constant movement and firing capability of the Poisoned Wind Mortar, like I said. It'll always be firing.
- Volatile. 5/6 of the misfire results kill this thing. 6 is just it doesn't fire. 1-2 is actually the best result, as with proper spacing it'll do absolutely nothing. The 3-5 however, hrm. Not so good. You do not want this thing running into friendly units and taking them with you. At the same time it can do the exact same thing to enemy units. With good movement in turns prior you can actually make it so that even a misfire hurts your enemy. But compared to the reliability of the poisoned wind mortar it's just not the same.
- Doesn't ignore armour. Sure it's -2 which is good enough for infantry, but not heavy cav. However I have WLCs for that kind of thing. It's worth mentioning though cause it's one of the few skaven weapons I field that doesn't ignore armour.
- Expensive. More expensive, but barely. It's only 5pts more.
Righty, so lets take the army from the battle report, with teclis. Now, I outrange that list with Warp Lightning Cannons, and have gutter runners harrying and such. They have no choice but to come running to me. Now while teclis (he's such a wanker) can shoot white hot magic all over my WLCs (see?) within 24", proper deployment should avoid this. Considering how many units I have then I should get to dictate deployment. So on coming toward me, there will invariably be that turn when I just get to absolutely tear the HE a new one, with 9 WFTs and the doomrocket opening up. I mean, even if say 4 of those hit, that's like 3 units decimated. Then in the next HE turn they go into the redirectors, which buys me another turn of shooting. Then the HE turn to face me. This is where I move. And I have to move. It'll take some damn good redirection to make this move worth anything as well. As the HE unit will have to be close enough to me I can either put in another redirector, or get out of it's LoS.
Ok, on to the challenger.
THE POISONED WIND MORTAR
The new kid on the block. Bringing long range and blast templates to the skaven arsenal. Let's have a look.
Pros:
- Ignores toughness. This is a nice one. A Poisoned Wind Mortar doesn't care about your toughness at all. This is good because (generally, in the scope of the game) high toughness is good, as are spells that increase your toughness.
- Ignores armour. Another nice little perk. This means that this thing can pretty much rain it down on whoever the fuck it wants. White Lions with Flesh to Stone (as in the batrep)? No problem. Chosen with a 2+ save? Can do. Shouldn't need to explain why this is good.
- Can fire without LoS. Usually you want to fire with LoS, just cause you can hit things with scatters of 2" and 4". But admittedly it's a very nice option to have. Especially if you're against heavy fire.
- Range. This is a big one. While the WFT may not get to open fire until turn 2 or 3, this guy can start on turn one. My problem however is actually with the first. People argue range all the time. It's only that good (I find) against shooty units, that stay in the back field. How often do you see big shooty units you want to be shooting with this thing? Not very often is the reply. Again though, even though this can open up turn one, a WFT goes turn 2 if you get second (odds are I will, lots of units), so it's not that much extra time spent shooting. Although, being able to fire across the field and really concentrate is a nice perk of this. With these things because of the range you really can just bomb stuff out of existance. I'm talking 11 templates landing on one unit. See what's left at the end. My money is on not fucking much.
- Mobility. Hurm. Here's the really big one. This lil' bastard can move 5" and shoot. While that may not seem huge, they move as single models. That means these are very good at literally running in circles around blocks, while firing. They can also kite and suchlike. Honestly I can't say how big this is. But it just means these will be stupidly hard to catch. Stupidly stupidly hard. Unless you have ranged.
- Ol' reliable. Yeah these things aren't nearly as likely to die to misfire. Hell the misfire chart isn't even devastating. It's bloody weird. Still, means unless you actively go out to kill them these won't die very often at all.
Cons:
-Hits like a wet paper sack full of cotton balls dipped in antiseptic. Yeah, these things don't hit hard. Sure always wounding on a 5+ is nice. But when you're firing at mass T3 infantry it's a bit lacklustre. Sure hit 20 kill 6... mneh. See this ties in directly to the next problem.
- Gets worse the more they kill. "Wait a second! Surely the same applies to warpfire throwers!" Well yeah, but they take out 85% of a unit in one shot. So you know, the stormvermin or gutter runners can mop up after that. With poisoned wind mortars though, when you're down to hitting 12 or so models (if you hit with no scatter) it can become horribly slow going. Getting rid of that last rank can be hell. See I already tried a list with... it was like 6 of these. I know from experience. >_>
- Accurate as a vindicare with a blunderbuss. In fact, knowing vindicares that's prolly still pretty accurate. Anyway, point being these aren't accurate. Sure it's great to say you can prolly down a unit just shooting these at them. But realistically, I doubt you'll be able to. This is the number one problem for these for me, compared to the WFT. When you fire a WFT at a unit, you're damn damn likely to hit and kill a lot guys. When you fire a PWM there's every chance it'll do nothing, or hit maybe 5 guys. It's even worse if you're firing out of line of sight.
So which do I think is better? At this moment of time, the Warpfire Thrower. Why? Well, it's less survivable, it's static, it will die if it misfires. However, if it hits you, even once, chances are your unit will just drop. And I have 9 of them. In addition I don't think the PWM will bring along enough power for it to be worth it. However in my previous army I did enjoy the Poisoned Wind Mortar. If I find myself wanting/needing one I won't hesitate to add it in.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article. Read more!
 |
| I feel this sums up my new feelings on wizards. |
Now as I'm sure you've noticed (you better have) I have a new army with 9 weapon teams. I'm having a rough time deciding what should be what. At the moment it's 9 warpfires just for raw hitting power. However that may well change. To the pros and cons!
So let's start with:
THE WARPFIRE THROWER
Huh, this age old classic. Right let's have a look at the pros:
- Very, very damaging. A direct hit against let's say a block of 25-30 infantry will usually leave them with less than 2 ranks. As in less than 10 models. It's a sickeningly powerful weapon. Strength 5 templates. Ouch. But that's not all, this monster also does D3 wounds, which means not even monsters and ogres are safe. This is truly a weapon you can fire at just about anything and expect to worry it. Having my army based around these means there's few threats that wont simply just drop dead as they come close. I mean, a good hit on a unit of ogres and you're still looking at about 8 wounds. That's one shot! Consider this thing only costs 70pts. Man.
- Accurate. Yup, out of the weapon teams this thing is the most accurate. It's very easy to get hits with WFTs. It's rare you over or undershoot if you're making shots at the right range and have positioned correctly. If you fire in the right direction most of the time you're gonna hit. And you're gonna hit a lot.
- Autopanic. Yeah it automatically causes panic too. Cause it really needs ithat upgrade?! How often will these things not cause panic? Whatever. Lol.
- Decent range. Your average amount of distance you can expect to cover with these things is 12" to 14". Which is (ideally) where you want the back of the unit you're firing at to be. However if it means not getting charged next turn you can make do with "just" getting around 13 hits. Lol. However when these things are in amongst your lines chances are you wont be able to get far enough quick enough.
- Stand and shoot. No, fucking really. They can stand and fucking shoot. More bullshit please? What's that unit of 30 empire swordsmen/T3 whatever? I can't hear you over the sound of you all dying a burny fiery death.
- Static. This is the big one. It's a move or fire weapon. This means you'll usually get one or two good shots off with em. Those being the turn you get to fire, and your stand and shoot reaction. Now admittedly (as I said) if either of those hits you're looking at serious damage, but if you compare this to the mobility of the Poisoned Wind Mortar it doesn't quite stand up. I mean, sure you can move it and not fire to set up some good shots later (in particular, having a WFT in every direction around a unit works, as they're going to spend forever catching them all). But this is nothing compared to the constant movement and firing capability of the Poisoned Wind Mortar, like I said. It'll always be firing.
- Volatile. 5/6 of the misfire results kill this thing. 6 is just it doesn't fire. 1-2 is actually the best result, as with proper spacing it'll do absolutely nothing. The 3-5 however, hrm. Not so good. You do not want this thing running into friendly units and taking them with you. At the same time it can do the exact same thing to enemy units. With good movement in turns prior you can actually make it so that even a misfire hurts your enemy. But compared to the reliability of the poisoned wind mortar it's just not the same.
- Doesn't ignore armour. Sure it's -2 which is good enough for infantry, but not heavy cav. However I have WLCs for that kind of thing. It's worth mentioning though cause it's one of the few skaven weapons I field that doesn't ignore armour.
- Expensive. More expensive, but barely. It's only 5pts more.
Righty, so lets take the army from the battle report, with teclis. Now, I outrange that list with Warp Lightning Cannons, and have gutter runners harrying and such. They have no choice but to come running to me. Now while teclis (he's such a wanker) can shoot white hot magic all over my WLCs (see?) within 24", proper deployment should avoid this. Considering how many units I have then I should get to dictate deployment. So on coming toward me, there will invariably be that turn when I just get to absolutely tear the HE a new one, with 9 WFTs and the doomrocket opening up. I mean, even if say 4 of those hit, that's like 3 units decimated. Then in the next HE turn they go into the redirectors, which buys me another turn of shooting. Then the HE turn to face me. This is where I move. And I have to move. It'll take some damn good redirection to make this move worth anything as well. As the HE unit will have to be close enough to me I can either put in another redirector, or get out of it's LoS.
Ok, on to the challenger.
THE POISONED WIND MORTAR
The new kid on the block. Bringing long range and blast templates to the skaven arsenal. Let's have a look.
Pros:
- Ignores toughness. This is a nice one. A Poisoned Wind Mortar doesn't care about your toughness at all. This is good because (generally, in the scope of the game) high toughness is good, as are spells that increase your toughness.
- Ignores armour. Another nice little perk. This means that this thing can pretty much rain it down on whoever the fuck it wants. White Lions with Flesh to Stone (as in the batrep)? No problem. Chosen with a 2+ save? Can do. Shouldn't need to explain why this is good.
- Can fire without LoS. Usually you want to fire with LoS, just cause you can hit things with scatters of 2" and 4". But admittedly it's a very nice option to have. Especially if you're against heavy fire.
- Range. This is a big one. While the WFT may not get to open fire until turn 2 or 3, this guy can start on turn one. My problem however is actually with the first. People argue range all the time. It's only that good (I find) against shooty units, that stay in the back field. How often do you see big shooty units you want to be shooting with this thing? Not very often is the reply. Again though, even though this can open up turn one, a WFT goes turn 2 if you get second (odds are I will, lots of units), so it's not that much extra time spent shooting. Although, being able to fire across the field and really concentrate is a nice perk of this. With these things because of the range you really can just bomb stuff out of existance. I'm talking 11 templates landing on one unit. See what's left at the end. My money is on not fucking much.
- Ol' reliable. Yeah these things aren't nearly as likely to die to misfire. Hell the misfire chart isn't even devastating. It's bloody weird. Still, means unless you actively go out to kill them these won't die very often at all.
Cons:
-Hits like a wet paper sack full of cotton balls dipped in antiseptic. Yeah, these things don't hit hard. Sure always wounding on a 5+ is nice. But when you're firing at mass T3 infantry it's a bit lacklustre. Sure hit 20 kill 6... mneh. See this ties in directly to the next problem.
- Gets worse the more they kill. "Wait a second! Surely the same applies to warpfire throwers!" Well yeah, but they take out 85% of a unit in one shot. So you know, the stormvermin or gutter runners can mop up after that. With poisoned wind mortars though, when you're down to hitting 12 or so models (if you hit with no scatter) it can become horribly slow going. Getting rid of that last rank can be hell. See I already tried a list with... it was like 6 of these. I know from experience. >_>
- Accurate as a vindicare with a blunderbuss. In fact, knowing vindicares that's prolly still pretty accurate. Anyway, point being these aren't accurate. Sure it's great to say you can prolly down a unit just shooting these at them. But realistically, I doubt you'll be able to. This is the number one problem for these for me, compared to the WFT. When you fire a WFT at a unit, you're damn damn likely to hit and kill a lot guys. When you fire a PWM there's every chance it'll do nothing, or hit maybe 5 guys. It's even worse if you're firing out of line of sight.
So which do I think is better? At this moment of time, the Warpfire Thrower. Why? Well, it's less survivable, it's static, it will die if it misfires. However, if it hits you, even once, chances are your unit will just drop. And I have 9 of them. In addition I don't think the PWM will bring along enough power for it to be worth it. However in my previous army I did enjoy the Poisoned Wind Mortar. If I find myself wanting/needing one I won't hesitate to add it in.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article. Read more!
Saturday 30 October 2010
A novel idea...
So, in this thread I'm going to drop the mother of all bombshells on you regarding my Skaven army. This is going to be some big stuff. Unheard of, especially considering my attitude usually toward the subject. But hear me out...
There will be no pictures in this thread because it is such serious business.
I'm thinking about dropping my Grey Seers.
I'm thinking about running without magic.
thinking about running without magic
running without magic
without magic
magic
Yeah really. And here's why.
I was on the train home earlier today and was sitting thinking about a game I'd had offered to me by a Lizardmen player. Then I got to thinking about some tactics I could use, mostly involving getting my seers to survive dwellers. Which got me thinking down the road of how efficient magic really is. When you're paying 275pts for a seer with a power scroll, that's not bad. I mean, if he nabs a character with 13th he usually makes his points up. But so many spells in this game can kill him before he even gets to. It makes WHFB very alpha strikey in that regard. That's why I think there's only a few wizards that're really all that viable (Teclis, Slann, Horrors, powercaddies) in this new element. It's like having two guys standing naked in pools of water firing electricity guns at each other.
For example, last weekend I was sitting watching a Slann and Teclis try and nab each other with dwellers and pit of shades. Fun for all the family? I think not.
So, won't I get trampled with no magic defense? Well, mostly. See, in 8th ed if you want a big spell off though, you get it off. There's nothing your opponent can do to stop that happening. "But your opponents don't need to make sure they get high rolls to cast, as there's nothing you can do to stop them!". Ok then, lets have us an example. Say I'm up against a life wizard against the new, wizardless army. Dwellers, don't care. Earthblood, don't care. Awakening, don't care. Shield of Thorns, don't care. Throne of Vines, I can dispel it whenever I suppose. Flesh to Stone, this I care about, and will just throw all my dice at it. This means they need to make sure they cast it well.
Obviously that's a simple example but the point stands. So then, you ask, my inquisitive readers, what would a wizardless army look like? Well, it would have to take advantage of what magic can't deal with very well. "What's that?"
MSU.
Yup, my golden boy is back. There are only a few things that bother me magically as MSU. One of them is Chain Lightning. Gift of Chaos, Comet of Cassandora... and I think that's it. I suppose Plague but it's not reliable and it's short range. Ho hum. So how do we build this magically resistant, MSU army. Well, as Skaven we need something to do the killing. For me that's shooting. So on we go to have a gander...
Lord
Warlord
Shield
Dragonbane Gem
98
Heroes
Chieftan
Battle Standard Bearer
Shield
72
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Warlock Engineer
15
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
Standard of Discipline
165
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
Special
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
So there we have it. You can of course swap weapon teams around as you please. But now, let us have a review of this list.
First off our general. Well basically he's cheap LD7. One might argue I would be better off with a chieftan, for only one loss in LD. But LD7 is so much better than LD6. I also get LD8 (discipline) but there's a lot of modifiers out here, and anyway, the big killer of this list is panic. The Doomrocket is of course auto include, and the engineers are just redirectors. The Warp Lightning Cannons are auto include and the gutter runners are war machine hunters and unit finisher-offers. So the core. Well.... it's 9 units to get in people's way, and 9 warpfire throwers. They also give my general +1LD which is nice. But yeah, 9 warpfire throwers.
You guys enjoy your dwellers or whatever, I reckon I'm gonna stay here. To be perfectly honest I'm half tempted to get a seer with a scroll just to evaporate big powerful hard to kill units, but I'd be dropping 2 warpfire throwers and 20 stormvermin. Fair enough that could be worth it but the seer is so fragile. I mean, losing him turn one to an opposing caddy is mneh. And Skaven aren't likely to get first turn in most scenarios (so many units).
Hope you enjoyed the article.
What do you guys think?
Read more!
There will be no pictures in this thread because it is such serious business.
I'm thinking about dropping my Grey Seers.
I'm thinking about running without magic.
thinking about running without magic
running without magic
without magic
magic
Yeah really. And here's why.
I was on the train home earlier today and was sitting thinking about a game I'd had offered to me by a Lizardmen player. Then I got to thinking about some tactics I could use, mostly involving getting my seers to survive dwellers. Which got me thinking down the road of how efficient magic really is. When you're paying 275pts for a seer with a power scroll, that's not bad. I mean, if he nabs a character with 13th he usually makes his points up. But so many spells in this game can kill him before he even gets to. It makes WHFB very alpha strikey in that regard. That's why I think there's only a few wizards that're really all that viable (Teclis, Slann, Horrors, powercaddies) in this new element. It's like having two guys standing naked in pools of water firing electricity guns at each other.
For example, last weekend I was sitting watching a Slann and Teclis try and nab each other with dwellers and pit of shades. Fun for all the family? I think not.
So, won't I get trampled with no magic defense? Well, mostly. See, in 8th ed if you want a big spell off though, you get it off. There's nothing your opponent can do to stop that happening. "But your opponents don't need to make sure they get high rolls to cast, as there's nothing you can do to stop them!". Ok then, lets have us an example. Say I'm up against a life wizard against the new, wizardless army. Dwellers, don't care. Earthblood, don't care. Awakening, don't care. Shield of Thorns, don't care. Throne of Vines, I can dispel it whenever I suppose. Flesh to Stone, this I care about, and will just throw all my dice at it. This means they need to make sure they cast it well.
Obviously that's a simple example but the point stands. So then, you ask, my inquisitive readers, what would a wizardless army look like? Well, it would have to take advantage of what magic can't deal with very well. "What's that?"
MSU.
Yup, my golden boy is back. There are only a few things that bother me magically as MSU. One of them is Chain Lightning. Gift of Chaos, Comet of Cassandora... and I think that's it. I suppose Plague but it's not reliable and it's short range. Ho hum. So how do we build this magically resistant, MSU army. Well, as Skaven we need something to do the killing. For me that's shooting. So on we go to have a gander...
Lord
Warlord
Shield
Dragonbane Gem
98
Heroes
Chieftan
Battle Standard Bearer
Shield
72
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Warlock Engineer
15
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
Standard of Discipline
165
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
Special
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
So there we have it. You can of course swap weapon teams around as you please. But now, let us have a review of this list.
First off our general. Well basically he's cheap LD7. One might argue I would be better off with a chieftan, for only one loss in LD. But LD7 is so much better than LD6. I also get LD8 (discipline) but there's a lot of modifiers out here, and anyway, the big killer of this list is panic. The Doomrocket is of course auto include, and the engineers are just redirectors. The Warp Lightning Cannons are auto include and the gutter runners are war machine hunters and unit finisher-offers. So the core. Well.... it's 9 units to get in people's way, and 9 warpfire throwers. They also give my general +1LD which is nice. But yeah, 9 warpfire throwers.
You guys enjoy your dwellers or whatever, I reckon I'm gonna stay here. To be perfectly honest I'm half tempted to get a seer with a scroll just to evaporate big powerful hard to kill units, but I'd be dropping 2 warpfire throwers and 20 stormvermin. Fair enough that could be worth it but the seer is so fragile. I mean, losing him turn one to an opposing caddy is mneh. And Skaven aren't likely to get first turn in most scenarios (so many units).
Hope you enjoyed the article.
What do you guys think?
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Thursday 28 October 2010
In the distance of the far future...
There is only grimdark. So much grimdark guys. Nah seriously, as this blog is over a month old now I feel I can dilute the pool a bit, but just a bit. This is a thread helping me choose what 40k army I should go for first. Come the end of the year I'll have both anyway but this will be nice.
So this isn't my first 40k army. Heavens no. However it is the one I'll be getting back into the game with. Blood Angels. So today I have 2 lists for you, you guys have to pick the one you like best and I'll get it first. (:. Pick it for whatever reason you like. As a note, my guys are gonna be bone coloured marble, golden weapons, black wings, red shoulder/decal. Just to help you visualise it. Here we go...
List A:
HQ
Dante
225
Librarian
The Blood Lance
Shield of Sanguinius
Jump Pack
125
5 Honour Guard
Jump Packs
4 Melta Guns
205
Elites
5 Sternguard
2 Melta Guns
2 Combi Meltas
Drop Pod
180
Sanguinary Priest
50
Troops
5 Sanguinary Guard
2 Inferno Pistols
220
5 Sanguinary Guard
200
5 Sanguinary Guard
200
5 Sanguinary Guard
200
Heavy Support
5 Devastators
4 Missile Launchers
130
5 Devastators
4 Missile Launchers
130
5 Devastators
4 Missile Launchers
130
That's 2k. Nice fun list, should be hella fun to play with. I reckon I'll really enjoy it, and it'll look awesome. I also have a 1500 version (drop a unit of sanguinary guard, the sternguard and the libby), which isn't as good but is playable.
Next we have an army I also really like just cause I love the look of predators, and have never had one before. So...
HQ
Librarian
Shield of Sanguinius
The Blood Lance
100
Troops
5 Assault Marines
Melta Gun
Infernus Pistol
Razorback
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer
145
5 Assault Marines
Melta Gun
Infernus Pistol
Razorback
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer
145
5 Assault Marines
Melta Gun
Razorback
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer
130
5 Assault Marines
Melta Gun
Razorback
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer
130
Fast Attack
Baal Predator
Twin Linked Assault Cannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
145
Baal Predator
Twin Linked Assault Cannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
145
Baal Predator
Twin Linked Assault Cannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Hunter Killer Missile
155
Heavy Support
Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
135
Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
135
Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
135
1500
Obviously not as many points, but 1500 is the standard around here, meaning I'd get to play with the whole army more often. This is another army I like (mobile firepower, and preds look cool) and would love to paint because I think it would look ace on the table.
Admittedly, both of them would look really nice. So, which one do you think I should go for first?
Thanks folks.
Read more!
So this isn't my first 40k army. Heavens no. However it is the one I'll be getting back into the game with. Blood Angels. So today I have 2 lists for you, you guys have to pick the one you like best and I'll get it first. (:. Pick it for whatever reason you like. As a note, my guys are gonna be bone coloured marble, golden weapons, black wings, red shoulder/decal. Just to help you visualise it. Here we go...
List A:
HQ
Dante
225
Librarian
The Blood Lance
Shield of Sanguinius
Jump Pack
125
5 Honour Guard
Jump Packs
4 Melta Guns
205
Elites
5 Sternguard
2 Melta Guns
2 Combi Meltas
Drop Pod
180
Sanguinary Priest
50
Troops
5 Sanguinary Guard
2 Inferno Pistols
220
5 Sanguinary Guard
200
5 Sanguinary Guard
200
5 Sanguinary Guard
200
Heavy Support
5 Devastators
4 Missile Launchers
130
5 Devastators
4 Missile Launchers
130
5 Devastators
4 Missile Launchers
130
That's 2k. Nice fun list, should be hella fun to play with. I reckon I'll really enjoy it, and it'll look awesome. I also have a 1500 version (drop a unit of sanguinary guard, the sternguard and the libby), which isn't as good but is playable.
Next we have an army I also really like just cause I love the look of predators, and have never had one before. So...
HQ
Librarian
Shield of Sanguinius
The Blood Lance
100
Troops
5 Assault Marines
Melta Gun
Infernus Pistol
Razorback
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer
145
5 Assault Marines
Melta Gun
Infernus Pistol
Razorback
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer
145
5 Assault Marines
Melta Gun
Razorback
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer
130
5 Assault Marines
Melta Gun
Razorback
Twin Linked Heavy Flamer
130
Fast Attack
Baal Predator
Twin Linked Assault Cannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
145
Baal Predator
Twin Linked Assault Cannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
145
Baal Predator
Twin Linked Assault Cannon
Heavy Bolter Sponsons
Hunter Killer Missile
155
Heavy Support
Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
135
Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
135
Predator
Lascannon Sponsons
135
1500
Obviously not as many points, but 1500 is the standard around here, meaning I'd get to play with the whole army more often. This is another army I like (mobile firepower, and preds look cool) and would love to paint because I think it would look ace on the table.
Admittedly, both of them would look really nice. So, which one do you think I should go for first?
Thanks folks.
Read more!
How to win, comp, cheesy broken combos, fame, and secret tactics.
Within the depths of this post I'm going to show you the most important tips that you'll need to remember if you ever want to win at WHFB. But if you remember this advice then you'll beat 90% of the people you play against. Like I said, the best way to win in WHFB. I'll discuss some of the unit combinations that work with these strategies, and the (admittedly slightly hindered) version of it you can run in comp.
Ha, that got your attention.
This is a post to get you. Yes you. And now you're here. My lil honey trap worked. This my friends is a community project. One of those things that usually don't work on the blogosphere. Those things that only the giants like 3++, YTTH and such can pull off. Ok then, but based on how much activity my poll has gotten in the past few days, I'm guessing a lot more of you visit this site than you let on.
Read more!
This is a post to get you. Yes you. And now you're here. My lil honey trap worked. This my friends is a community project. One of those things that usually don't work on the blogosphere. Those things that only the giants like 3++, YTTH and such can pull off. Ok then, but based on how much activity my poll has gotten in the past few days, I'm guessing a lot more of you visit this site than you let on.
Ok so what's the point of this post, I'm getting there. It's somewhat related to the title. I understand a lot of my readers are new to WHFB, haven't started, are considering starting and suchlike. You folk are more than welcome here as well. See, I'm putting on my elitist (sort of, more englightening) cap and bringing the light to the masses. "Mate, what are you on about?"
Like, I said, getting there. And here we are. Competitive WHFB. What is it? In 40k everyone can tell you it's mech. Bzzzzzt. Nap it's mobility (most often) or the ability to get from A to B while managing your opponent. By managing I mean suppressing and destroying as necessary. Sure, mech is the usual outlet for this playstyle but it certainly isn't the only one.
So in WHFB, what is it? What makes a good list? What do you need in WHFB? Considering the new missions and suchlike, and the new system. What are those essentials that every good list has or should have? I'd like to see some opinions.
I'm going to leave this up a few days before posting my own thoughts. I'm testing the waters, if you will.
Thanks folks, especially if you take part.
Like, I said, getting there. And here we are. Competitive WHFB. What is it? In 40k everyone can tell you it's mech. Bzzzzzt. Nap it's mobility (most often) or the ability to get from A to B while managing your opponent. By managing I mean suppressing and destroying as necessary. Sure, mech is the usual outlet for this playstyle but it certainly isn't the only one.
So in WHFB, what is it? What makes a good list? What do you need in WHFB? Considering the new missions and suchlike, and the new system. What are those essentials that every good list has or should have? I'd like to see some opinions.
I'm going to leave this up a few days before posting my own thoughts. I'm testing the waters, if you will.
Thanks folks, especially if you take part.
Read more!
Wednesday 27 October 2010
What...?
As in, what would you like to see?
First off, sorry for the lack of activity but recurring headaches and work tend to clamp down that kind of thing during the week. However, I did notice my Warrior of Chaos review (part 3 coming later this week) was generally quite well received. Was just wondering, as posting up my thoughts on armies doesn't take too much time, and I'm still working on my (somewhat monolithic) guide to being good at magic, what armies would you guys like to see done next?
There's a poll up on the blog now. Vote for whatever armies you wish. That poll will be open a good while, and what I'm going to do is once I finish my WoC articles I'll write on the most popular after that. Then after those the next most popular and so on.
Thanks folks, enjoy.
Read more!
First off, sorry for the lack of activity but recurring headaches and work tend to clamp down that kind of thing during the week. However, I did notice my Warrior of Chaos review (part 3 coming later this week) was generally quite well received. Was just wondering, as posting up my thoughts on armies doesn't take too much time, and I'm still working on my (somewhat monolithic) guide to being good at magic, what armies would you guys like to see done next?
There's a poll up on the blog now. Vote for whatever armies you wish. That poll will be open a good while, and what I'm going to do is once I finish my WoC articles I'll write on the most popular after that. Then after those the next most popular and so on.
Thanks folks, enjoy.
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| Say what again. |
Sunday 24 October 2010
Warriors of Chaos. Part Two.
When making this army list the first thing I did was put in four units of 10 chaos warriors with halberds. For 640 pts, each unit dishing out ~16/17 (depending on enemy frontage) S5 attacks at WS5 and I5 you couldn't go wrong. Right?
Then my next port of call was 2 units of 30 marauders with hand weapons, shields, light armour, the mark of tzeentch and a standard and musician. These set me back 424 points, but gave me a pair of anvils to work my force around. So far so good. Already over 1000pts down though. Whew, still, it's a rock solid core. Right, next up we'll add in 4 units of warhounds for 120 points, and a Hellcannon. That's 205pts down.
So currently our list looks like this;
Core
4 Units of:
10 Chaos Warriors
Halberds
160 (640)
2 Units of:
30 Marauders of Chaos
Mark of Tzeentch
Shields
Light Armour
Standard and Musician
212 (424)
4 Units of:
5 Chaos Warhounds
30 (120)
Rare
Hellcannon
205
From here I decided it was a good idea to go get some characters. First up, the Sorcerer Lord! I took him as a level 4, of course. Then I took a BSB. that's 405pts down so far, leaving me about 300 points to burn. Ok I thought, before I splurge all this on goodies, I'm taking another unit of 10 chaos warriors. Putting me at 50 chaos warriors. Considering 5 of these guys can hold their own against 25 empire swordsmen... yeah. Right then, now it came to the goodies. My Sorcerer got the Infernal Puppet (of course) and my BSB got the Armour of Morrslieb and the Mark of Tzeentch. Here I dropped a musician.
Ok, now, lore for my sorcerer. Honestly, in this army I like fire. Why? Well Chaos Mages aren't super magic batteries and fire, while not that devastating, is really easy to cast. It also helps with something WoC really struggle with (we'll go over this in part 3). Really killy monsters. As a fair few of these have regenerate I decided fire was a safe bet. Finally, it helps burn down small skirmish units. Sure, your opponent may let you thinking "Ha! He wasted a spell on a 60pt skirmisher unit!" but you don't have a better way to deal with them. Also, it helps with some units that WoC can't beat in combat. These tend to be the remnants of the "strike first, strike hard" cult from 7E. For example Black Guard, or all of the High Elves. As a final afterthought I realised my exalted didn't get that much from a shield, and could actually do a fair bit of damage to big monsters and those damned quick units with a flail. So I gave him one. A 4+/3++ will do him.
Then I realised my Warrior units don't have musicians. This needed fixed, so I dropped some Marauders. Swift reform in MSU is way way way too good to pass up.
So the final list is:
Lord
Sorcerer Lord
Level 4
Lore of Fire
Infernal Puppet
Enchanted Shield
Necrotic Phylactery
320
Heroes
Exalted Hero
BSB
Armour of Morrslieb
Flail
Mark of Tzeentch
184
Core
10 Warriors
Halberds
Musician
166
10 Warriors
Halberds
Musician
166
10 Warriors
Halberds
Musician
166
10 Warriors
Halberds
Musician
166
10 Warriors
Halberds
Musician
166
30 Marauders of Chaos
Mark of Tzeentch
Shields
Light Armour
Standard and Musician
212
26 Marauders of Chaos
Mark of Tzeentch
Shields
Light Armour
Standard
188
5 Warhounds
30
5 Warhounds
30
Rare
Hellcannon
205
Right, this army plays MSU. Except a unit of chaos warriors can take a fully ranked infantry unit, or any MSU infantry unit in the game barring high elf ones. That's where your marauder chaff comes in, as well as the fire mage.
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| Juggernauts? In my 8th edition?! |
Speaking of the fire mage, he and your hellcannon are your reach. The only things in the army that can reliably reach out and touch things. But it shouldn't be that much of a problem. With as many units as this army you should easily be able to cover the board. ^^
Finally, the warhounds. There aren't enough to run out in front. Use them as redirectors still, but take advantage of your movement and run them right up in the way. Definitely keep them back early game.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
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Saturday 23 October 2010
Warriors of Chaos. Part One.
Righty, this was originally going to start as a guide to Warriors of Chaos. However, today a friend of mine ran a Warriors army by me and got me thinking "How would I do Warriors." I have a feeling though it's going to turn into a guide. Basically, it's my thoughts on the army. Now, let's start with the basics... Warriors are slow. Sure, you can do all cavalry but then you'll have fewer models than my mordheim warband. So? They'll be rock hard with 1+ saves. No. No they will not. Think of this. Chaos Knights. 5 for 200pts. 5 T4 1+ saves. For that you can get around 12 Chaos Warriors with shields. Who will get a 3+ from shooting, which, while not as good is still serviceable, but the real thing is they have 7 wounds on the chaos knights. And that's what this all comes down to.
This is an edition where outside of combat, defenses mean pretty much fuck all. Dwellers, Plague, Purple Sun, Pit of Shades, Final Transmutation, Infernal Gateway, Curse of Years, Dreaded 13th, the list goes on. Basically what I'm trying to convey is that if I did warriors, my approach would be boots on the ground. Now, this army would be slow, so I'd need to put in some form of reach. Thankfully, that's doable. So then, what would I use? Well I'll run through the units, quickly.
LORDS
Chaos Lords, never. Just get 2 exalteds and win games.
Sorcerer Lord, always, unless you're running a DP. That's a rough call but I personally prefer the raw defense of these guys.
Daemon Prince, maybe. Not a bad unit but it definitely lost some of it's oomph (almost all of it in fact) with true line of sight and people being able to hit back. These things just aren't tough enough to survive in 8E.
HEROES
Sorcerer, you have no reason not to if you have the points. As this is Chaos, you do not have the points. I would run one and your lord at 2250-2500, but I think it's too tight in 2k.
Exalted Hero, always run one. As the BSB of course. Otherwise, if you have the spare points just buy another block of warriors or something.
CORE
Marauders, sure. Not a bad unit by any means. A unit of 30 with HW/S, Light Armour and the MoTz gets a 5+/5++ in close combat. Which is a damn nice tarpit and costs about 200 points. Cool. However for about 200 points I could have 12 chaos warriors with halberds and shields. We'll come to that. Ultimately I think one block of these is going to make it into the list, purely because WoC do have a rather large weakness, which we'll come to at a later point as well.
Chaos Warriors, yup. If Marauders are the potatoes, these are the meat. Like I said, for 200pts you can have 12 with halberds and shields. That's a unit that dishes out stupid amounts of strength 5 attacks, and has a 3+ save against shooting. Now it's not all meat and gravy. They do have weaknesses. Mainly stuff that hits before them (not much) that denies them their save. Like I dunno, White Lions. Yup, White Lions sure would rip this unit a new one. So Arch, what do we do about that? Well, a WoC fanboy who bought the army because he heard they would be leet and pro in 8th edition might tell you to buy 12 warriors with Shields and the Mark of Tzeentch. I would tell him "SHUT MOUTH SHUT NOW MOUTH NOW SHUT!". Lets weigh that one up shall we. Against those 14 white lions you could get for your unit of 12 Chaos Warriors with shields and MoTz, here's what happens: Combat starts. The white lions hack down about 5. That's 80pts down the drain before you can swing. You return fire and kill, let's be generous and say 2. That's 30pts. What!? I thought this unit was meant to be good against stuff like this! See, this is why you can never trust the internet. Except me. And Chumbalaya (http://bnhblog.blogspot.com). Maybe. Anyway, the unit you want for this situation is the aformentioned MoTz Marauders. Because they'll only kill 6 or 7. Which is about 30-40 points or so. And then you'll be stubborn. See how this is all coming together? In addition, your return fire isn't exactly much worse than the Warriors in this regard, because you'll be getting your full 10 attacks.
Ok, the other core choices.
Warhounds are good little irritation units and they can tie stuff up while your warriors close the gap. I say tie stuff up, half it's move or just stop them moving (depends if the opponent is smart enough to swift reform or not). Sure they can backpedal, but there's nothing you can do about that anyway. Nothing wrong here. 30pts well spent.
Marauder Horsemen. Mneh. Now they'll be eating return attacks, they're really fragile. However 6 with the MoK for 120 points isn't bad as such. It is 12 attacks at S5 and initiative 4. On a flank it could hurt. But that's the same points as about 8 warriors. With 3+ saves against shooting. And Toughness 4. Hrm. They're a maybe if you really need speed. Personally I think 4 units of warhounds would do more (sure they wouldn't kill anything but they'd buy time).
SPECIAL
Chosen! Grrr. Unless you're running the Tzeentchi Deathstar (don't, by the way) they're not that great. Mostly because 36pts for one roll on the eye of the gods and +1WS (when you're WS5...) isn't really worth it. Unless you play elves a lot, like me. Not a bad unit, but suffers in the long run against warriors. Unless you can get really good rolls on the EoTG table. Basically, if you have points, feel free to upgrade some warriors to Chosen, it might pay off. If you do give the champion Favour of the Gods though.
Forsaken. Haha.
Ok fine. They're not as good as warriors. Extra attacks isn't as good as I5 and WS5 with halberds. M6 is glorious, sure, but again, they're more expensive. You guys might be thinking what's 36pts for a unit? Over an army, that's an extra unit or 2. So hush.
Chariots. Not bad, I'd rather have more warriors. It's actually a pretty good chariot though, all things considered. But 4 wounds and the armour save of a chaos warrior with only +1T is... not bad, just not for 120 points. Chaos are all about being constantly and consistently deadly, which a chariot isn't. In most games it's deadly once or twice. And it sucks in protracted combats of hacking through chaff. Which warriors don't, by the way.
Ogres. Shit. Something good!? In MY special section!? Ok seriously, these guys aren't bad by virtue of chucking out a metric tonne of high strength attacks. Unfortunately they (like almost everything else in this army) fall into the category of "you can do it better with a small horde of chaos warriors". 3 of these with great weapons will get you 9 S6 WS3 attacks and 3 S4 stomps, striking last. That many points of chaos warriors will get you 16 S5 attacks at WS5 and I5. Ho hum. Then they get even more expensive if you give them chaos armour. Ho hum. Can anything beat chaos warriors in terms of sheer killing power...?
Chaos Knights! Riding hard, high in the saddle! Winged Steed of Unwearing Flight! Sweeping through air just like fire! Swift of the foot great of might! Nah not these guys either. You see, I took you the other way with that one. That's humour. Now I get why Brent does this so much. Nah seriously, these guys used to be gods among mere mortals. At least in the WoC army. Because in 7E speed was really really important. To an extent it still is. But all your WoC infantry receiving an extra 3" to their charges (on average) helps somewhat. Now, I haven't said whether or not they're good yet. It's true, you can get in more killing power with Chaos Warriors, but they don't have the save of the chaos knights. My honest opinion is no, they're not worth it. Why? Like I said, this is an age where defenses mean fuck all. Sure the speed is nice, but I don't think that's as important anymore. Having lots of units is pretty important though, and these guys don't help you achieve that.
Trolls. I hate stupidity with a totally unfair bias. But having a unit of 12 cold one riders fail stupidity 3 turns in a row at LD8 made me so furious I never played with Kroq-Gar again. Trolls on the other hand aren't bad, but low weapon skill lets them down, striking last isn't that much of a big deal, but if you compare them to Warriors then they are found lacking. However, to be fair to the big lugs, they're not bad in big units (make the most of their mutations), especially with Valkia kicking about. Personally though, I'd rather have more Chaos Warriors.
Dragon Ogres. Hrm, interesting. Let us compare a dragon ogre with 2 hand weapons to 4 warriors of chaos with halberds. Same save, cool. Same wounds, right. The chaos warriors get one more attack (but one of the dragon ogre's hits automatically). Fair play. Ok then, well what about initiative and weapon skill? Chaos Warriors win in both, but WS4 is still good (better than most). Ok then. But the Dragon Ogres are M7. But I thought you said you don't need speed? I don't think we do really. But if it turns out we do, you can damn well bet this is where I'll be turning. But it's not a cheap unit. However putting out 16 S5 attacks and 4 S5 stomps isn't bad. Especially when you have 16 wounds.
RARE
Forsaken. Haha.
Ok fine. They're not as good as warriors. Extra attacks isn't as good as I5 and WS5 with halberds. M6 is glorious, sure, but again, they're more expensive. You guys might be thinking what's 36pts for a unit? Over an army, that's an extra unit or 2. So hush.
Chariots. Not bad, I'd rather have more warriors. It's actually a pretty good chariot though, all things considered. But 4 wounds and the armour save of a chaos warrior with only +1T is... not bad, just not for 120 points. Chaos are all about being constantly and consistently deadly, which a chariot isn't. In most games it's deadly once or twice. And it sucks in protracted combats of hacking through chaff. Which warriors don't, by the way.
Ogres. Shit. Something good!? In MY special section!? Ok seriously, these guys aren't bad by virtue of chucking out a metric tonne of high strength attacks. Unfortunately they (like almost everything else in this army) fall into the category of "you can do it better with a small horde of chaos warriors". 3 of these with great weapons will get you 9 S6 WS3 attacks and 3 S4 stomps, striking last. That many points of chaos warriors will get you 16 S5 attacks at WS5 and I5. Ho hum. Then they get even more expensive if you give them chaos armour. Ho hum. Can anything beat chaos warriors in terms of sheer killing power...?
Chaos Knights! Riding hard, high in the saddle! Winged Steed of Unwearing Flight! Sweeping through air just like fire! Swift of the foot great of might! Nah not these guys either. You see, I took you the other way with that one. That's humour. Now I get why Brent does this so much. Nah seriously, these guys used to be gods among mere mortals. At least in the WoC army. Because in 7E speed was really really important. To an extent it still is. But all your WoC infantry receiving an extra 3" to their charges (on average) helps somewhat. Now, I haven't said whether or not they're good yet. It's true, you can get in more killing power with Chaos Warriors, but they don't have the save of the chaos knights. My honest opinion is no, they're not worth it. Why? Like I said, this is an age where defenses mean fuck all. Sure the speed is nice, but I don't think that's as important anymore. Having lots of units is pretty important though, and these guys don't help you achieve that.
Trolls. I hate stupidity with a totally unfair bias. But having a unit of 12 cold one riders fail stupidity 3 turns in a row at LD8 made me so furious I never played with Kroq-Gar again. Trolls on the other hand aren't bad, but low weapon skill lets them down, striking last isn't that much of a big deal, but if you compare them to Warriors then they are found lacking. However, to be fair to the big lugs, they're not bad in big units (make the most of their mutations), especially with Valkia kicking about. Personally though, I'd rather have more Chaos Warriors.
Dragon Ogres. Hrm, interesting. Let us compare a dragon ogre with 2 hand weapons to 4 warriors of chaos with halberds. Same save, cool. Same wounds, right. The chaos warriors get one more attack (but one of the dragon ogre's hits automatically). Fair play. Ok then, well what about initiative and weapon skill? Chaos Warriors win in both, but WS4 is still good (better than most). Ok then. But the Dragon Ogres are M7. But I thought you said you don't need speed? I don't think we do really. But if it turns out we do, you can damn well bet this is where I'll be turning. But it's not a cheap unit. However putting out 16 S5 attacks and 4 S5 stomps isn't bad. Especially when you have 16 wounds.
RARE
I'm only doing the Warshrine, Hellcannon and Spawn. The others can learn to not suck and then come back to me.
Warshrines. Uhhh, it's not bad. It's essential in a Tzeentchi Deathstar army. But I personally wouldn't bother. They can be quite rough to kill and can put out a good amount of damage, to be fair. But not nearly as much so as the Hellcannon.
Hellcannons. Ho ho. This thing. Well, where do we start. It's also T6 (like a Warshrine). It has a 5+ "handler ward". It also has a 4+ Armour. And it has 5 wounds. Ok, so it's tough to kill. In close combat, it has 5S5 WS4 attacks, and thunderstomp. So it kicks arse there too. Finally, it fires a S5(10) stone thrower that causes panic at -1LD if you're hit by the template. He doesn't even need to wound. This is a fun thing to shoot at Hellpits. Ok great, so what else? Did I mention it's unbreakable. Yeah, it's unbreakable.
"Yeah but it's a War Machine so it can't charge except for rampage, and automatically dies to dwellers." SHUT MOUTH SHUT MOUTH SHUT NOW! It's a Monster with Handlers, Tool. This means it can charge. Basically if you deploy this thing 12" in, take some potshots and wait until something breaks through your lines or tries to flank you, this thing will run in and most likely absolutely obliterate it. All for 205 points. I'd take one, definitely. Mostly because it gives Warriors some reach, and helps kill monsters (which they struggle with, from what I've seen). Downside is it usually goes absolutely apeshit if the Dwarfs die (in that it charges the closes unit, not what you want). However it's very unlikely to do so while the dwarfs are alive, as they are LD9 for it's rampage check. It also has a funky misfire chart. Three is particularly lols in 8th edition. I just want that to happen to Teclis. It'd make my day.
Ok folks, so I'm going to stop part one here. Part Two will be the actual "How would you do Warriors?" part. I just don't want your fragile little brains hurt by my massive wall of text.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
Read more!
Warshrines. Uhhh, it's not bad. It's essential in a Tzeentchi Deathstar army. But I personally wouldn't bother. They can be quite rough to kill and can put out a good amount of damage, to be fair. But not nearly as much so as the Hellcannon.
Hellcannons. Ho ho. This thing. Well, where do we start. It's also T6 (like a Warshrine). It has a 5+ "handler ward". It also has a 4+ Armour. And it has 5 wounds. Ok, so it's tough to kill. In close combat, it has 5S5 WS4 attacks, and thunderstomp. So it kicks arse there too. Finally, it fires a S5(10) stone thrower that causes panic at -1LD if you're hit by the template. He doesn't even need to wound. This is a fun thing to shoot at Hellpits. Ok great, so what else? Did I mention it's unbreakable. Yeah, it's unbreakable.
"Yeah but it's a War Machine so it can't charge except for rampage, and automatically dies to dwellers." SHUT MOUTH SHUT MOUTH SHUT NOW! It's a Monster with Handlers, Tool. This means it can charge. Basically if you deploy this thing 12" in, take some potshots and wait until something breaks through your lines or tries to flank you, this thing will run in and most likely absolutely obliterate it. All for 205 points. I'd take one, definitely. Mostly because it gives Warriors some reach, and helps kill monsters (which they struggle with, from what I've seen). Downside is it usually goes absolutely apeshit if the Dwarfs die (in that it charges the closes unit, not what you want). However it's very unlikely to do so while the dwarfs are alive, as they are LD9 for it's rampage check. It also has a funky misfire chart. Three is particularly lols in 8th edition. I just want that to happen to Teclis. It'd make my day.
Ok folks, so I'm going to stop part one here. Part Two will be the actual "How would you do Warriors?" part. I just don't want your fragile little brains hurt by my massive wall of text.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
Friday 22 October 2010
The 2k MSU Skaven Shooting Army MK II.II
I'm sure you guys know how this works now. Just a fairly minor change in the list...
Lords
Grey Seer (general)
240
Grey Seer
Power Scroll
260
Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Warlock Engineer
15
Warlock Engineer
15
Warlock Engineer
15
Chieftan
Shield
BSB
72
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Standard of Discipline
Warpfire Thrower
165
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
Special
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
3 Jezzails
60
3 Jezzails
60
5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers
Poisoned Wind Mortar
115
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Ok I assume you guys know how this list works by now. Let me explain. No slaves, and another 10 Stormvermin. Now, asking why is fair. 60 slaves takes up a lot of space, and they have hindered my ability to move in the past. In addition they don't kill very much. Finally, Cornered Rats! can be lethal to weapon teams or random Engineers kicking about. Which isn't good. So I dropped them. At 2k I think 11 sacrificial units (which is only 481pts, lol) is enough. What's amusing is that this army runs about as 23 units/models to be seperately targetted. Ah good times.
Oh, and 4 Warpfire Throwers. Come and get me.
Read more!
Lords
Grey Seer (general)
240
Grey Seer
Power Scroll
260
Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Warlock Engineer
15
Warlock Engineer
15
Warlock Engineer
15
Chieftan
Shield
BSB
72
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Standard of Discipline
Warpfire Thrower
165
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
Special
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
3 Jezzails
60
3 Jezzails
60
5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers
Poisoned Wind Mortar
115
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Ok I assume you guys know how this list works by now. Let me explain. No slaves, and another 10 Stormvermin. Now, asking why is fair. 60 slaves takes up a lot of space, and they have hindered my ability to move in the past. In addition they don't kill very much. Finally, Cornered Rats! can be lethal to weapon teams or random Engineers kicking about. Which isn't good. So I dropped them. At 2k I think 11 sacrificial units (which is only 481pts, lol) is enough. What's amusing is that this army runs about as 23 units/models to be seperately targetted. Ah good times.
Oh, and 4 Warpfire Throwers. Come and get me.
Read more!
Thursday 21 October 2010
2000 Dark Elf Warhost. It's just not right man...
So folks, an article on the Dark Elf army I would run if I ran Dark Elves. It's, in my opinion just absolutely stupid. I say article, it's just to show you how stupid this army book is. Have a look if you dare.
Lord
Supreme Sorceress
Level 4
Lore of Death
Power Scroll
305
Hero
Sorceress
Level 2
Dark Magic or Lore of Shadow. I'm undecided.
Tome of Furion
150
Core
10 Repeater Crossbowmen
Standard
Musician
115
10 Repeater Crossbowmen
Standard
Musician
115
10 Repeater Crossbowmen
Standard
Musician
115
5 Dark Riders
Standard
Musician
Repeater Crossbows
131
5 Dark Riders
Standard
Musician
Repeater Crossbows
131
Special
8 Shades
128
8 Shades
128
8 Shades
128
Cold One Chariot
100
Cold One Chariot
100
Rare
War Hydra
175
War Hydra
175
1996
So this list. Err. Well, let's have a look. In there you have 68 repeater crossbows. That's 136 shots a turn. However 48 of those are at BS5. What else do you have? Well you have a level 4 death wizard, which is fun. You also have 2 Powers of Darkness. Oh and 2 Hydras. Now frankly, at the moment you're probably asking me "what the hell? Where are the harpies!? ". Well, I really don't think this list needs it. The only static element is the 30 RxBmen. And they have a pair of hydras and a pair of chariots to protect them.
Oh and Soulblight with Repeater Crossbowmen. Good times are had.
Oh and finally, Watchtower will hurt yes. But so will being charged turn one by a hydra. Unless your unit has the Banner of Eternal Flame (and even then...) you're in serious trouble holding that tower. While the rest of the army can happily mow down anything that tries to come near the tower.
Finally, this kind of army scares the shit out my skaven. I would be taking so much panic, get sweet FA from my templates and their magic is as good, if not better than mine. Yup, hard army imo.
Read more!
Lord
Supreme Sorceress
Level 4
Lore of Death
Power Scroll
305
Hero
Sorceress
Level 2
Dark Magic or Lore of Shadow. I'm undecided.
Tome of Furion
150
Core
10 Repeater Crossbowmen
Standard
Musician
115
10 Repeater Crossbowmen
Standard
Musician
115
10 Repeater Crossbowmen
Standard
Musician
115
5 Dark Riders
Standard
Musician
Repeater Crossbows
131
5 Dark Riders
Standard
Musician
Repeater Crossbows
131
Special
8 Shades
128
8 Shades
128
8 Shades
128
Cold One Chariot
100
Cold One Chariot
100
Rare
War Hydra
175
War Hydra
175
1996
So this list. Err. Well, let's have a look. In there you have 68 repeater crossbows. That's 136 shots a turn. However 48 of those are at BS5. What else do you have? Well you have a level 4 death wizard, which is fun. You also have 2 Powers of Darkness. Oh and 2 Hydras. Now frankly, at the moment you're probably asking me "what the hell? Where are the harpies!? ". Well, I really don't think this list needs it. The only static element is the 30 RxBmen. And they have a pair of hydras and a pair of chariots to protect them.
Oh and Soulblight with Repeater Crossbowmen. Good times are had.
Oh and finally, Watchtower will hurt yes. But so will being charged turn one by a hydra. Unless your unit has the Banner of Eternal Flame (and even then...) you're in serious trouble holding that tower. While the rest of the army can happily mow down anything that tries to come near the tower.
Finally, this kind of army scares the shit out my skaven. I would be taking so much panic, get sweet FA from my templates and their magic is as good, if not better than mine. Yup, hard army imo.
Read more!
A New Army Is On The Horizon
Now while it's true I do have a whole skaven army to paint up, it's only 100 models and because of the masses of brown and metal it should be fairly easy to get that speedpainted. However the new army bug is calling to me. I would want something that's either good in CC in WHFB, or another 40k army...
Oh and it has to be between £200-300. Now then, things I'm considering include:
40k:
Renegade IG - However I'm worried 6E will bone them, and this army is not cheap. It's around £450. For 1500. No joke.
Biker Marines - This army is much cheaper at around £200. However this is an army that will require a lot of finesse to play correctly, and while it'll be a hard army, I don't think it'll be able to stand up to the best of them. That said, if 6E hurts transports I reckon bikes will be a solid army. Mobility is never a bad thing.
Necrons - Yeah I know, lolwut? Seriously, I've always loved the undead. And in 40k that's crons. The lack of competitiveness doesn't bother me as I already have mech space wolves, and they're still playable. However a friend of mine runs them and I'd be afraid of stepping on their toes.
Tau - Hurm. This army is not cheap (9 suits and 6 broadsides adds up). However I do very much like the playstyle. However I reckon a new book and new models are due soon, and I find suits get a bit static after a few classic poses. Ho hum. As opposed to crons and marines who will pretty much not get outdated. I like the current cron range.
Dark Eldar - When I saw the wrack artwork I was in love. However I don't want to be caught in the fanboy rush. I know what army list I'd run already though (same for all the above).
WHFB:
Ogre Kingdoms - I just like the aesthetic. This is an army I pretty much haven't seen in 8E though, so have no idea how it's playing.
Dark Elves - As much as I hate them I think they have access to some of (if not the) most competitive builds in 8E, and I'd like a really really harsh tourney army. Sue me, I play to win.
Vampire Counts - Used to play them back when summoning zombies was cool. Since then VC have gone up and shot down. Now if I were to play them I'd find zombie hordes weren't so good and that elite unkillable units was the done thing. Personally I'd want to play a zombie horde, but with unstable and no bonus from steadfast, what's the point?
Daemons of Chaos - Hurm. This one is something I played in 7E (told you, I am that guy). But my £250 army was stolen. However, they're not quite as good in 8E, I personally think due to the lack of a decent magic phase. Sure your HoTz is good but lvl2 just isn't that great. And they have no major PD maker. Unlike Skaven, DE, HE and Lizzies. There's the Blue Scribes but mneh.
Beastmen - For all the insults they get, I do like Beastmen. I just love the theme but they're really just not that great. The main strength I see in the book is one killy character, cheap skirmishers and pretty killy specials. However I think I'd personally prefer it if skirmishing beast hordes were good. Brown Orcs doesn't sound so fun.
So folks, there's the armies I'm considering. I wouldn't mind some feedback on what I should go for. It's pretty up in the air at the moment, leaning more on the 40k side of things. I was almost dead set renegade IG, but now I'm not so sure that much money is worth it. Like I say, your opinion is very welcome.
Now go, build me an army worthy of Mordor.
Read more!
Oh and it has to be between £200-300. Now then, things I'm considering include:
40k:
Renegade IG - However I'm worried 6E will bone them, and this army is not cheap. It's around £450. For 1500. No joke.
Biker Marines - This army is much cheaper at around £200. However this is an army that will require a lot of finesse to play correctly, and while it'll be a hard army, I don't think it'll be able to stand up to the best of them. That said, if 6E hurts transports I reckon bikes will be a solid army. Mobility is never a bad thing.
Necrons - Yeah I know, lolwut? Seriously, I've always loved the undead. And in 40k that's crons. The lack of competitiveness doesn't bother me as I already have mech space wolves, and they're still playable. However a friend of mine runs them and I'd be afraid of stepping on their toes.
Tau - Hurm. This army is not cheap (9 suits and 6 broadsides adds up). However I do very much like the playstyle. However I reckon a new book and new models are due soon, and I find suits get a bit static after a few classic poses. Ho hum. As opposed to crons and marines who will pretty much not get outdated. I like the current cron range.
Dark Eldar - When I saw the wrack artwork I was in love. However I don't want to be caught in the fanboy rush. I know what army list I'd run already though (same for all the above).
WHFB:
Ogre Kingdoms - I just like the aesthetic. This is an army I pretty much haven't seen in 8E though, so have no idea how it's playing.
Dark Elves - As much as I hate them I think they have access to some of (if not the) most competitive builds in 8E, and I'd like a really really harsh tourney army. Sue me, I play to win.
Vampire Counts - Used to play them back when summoning zombies was cool. Since then VC have gone up and shot down. Now if I were to play them I'd find zombie hordes weren't so good and that elite unkillable units was the done thing. Personally I'd want to play a zombie horde, but with unstable and no bonus from steadfast, what's the point?
Daemons of Chaos - Hurm. This one is something I played in 7E (told you, I am that guy). But my £250 army was stolen. However, they're not quite as good in 8E, I personally think due to the lack of a decent magic phase. Sure your HoTz is good but lvl2 just isn't that great. And they have no major PD maker. Unlike Skaven, DE, HE and Lizzies. There's the Blue Scribes but mneh.
Beastmen - For all the insults they get, I do like Beastmen. I just love the theme but they're really just not that great. The main strength I see in the book is one killy character, cheap skirmishers and pretty killy specials. However I think I'd personally prefer it if skirmishing beast hordes were good. Brown Orcs doesn't sound so fun.
So folks, there's the armies I'm considering. I wouldn't mind some feedback on what I should go for. It's pretty up in the air at the moment, leaning more on the 40k side of things. I was almost dead set renegade IG, but now I'm not so sure that much money is worth it. Like I say, your opinion is very welcome.
Now go, build me an army worthy of Mordor.
Read more!
Monday 18 October 2010
Clayman on Lizardmen. Part 1.
Hey folks, I am damn sorry about the lack of activity but I've been at my friends' flat for pretty much the weekend. However this does mean you get to pick their brains on Warhammer. So, tonight we have Clayman on Lizardmen. I can't in any way vouch for, sanction, or even say I approve of anything that follows and I apologise in advance. He's kind of abrasive in the same way an exit wound is gory. Still, he's a very good player and he definitely knows more on the subject than myself. So take it away.*As translated by The Lieutenant. Clayman is a maths student. He's not so good with the words.*
Hi folks. I'm Clayman, I'm more of a 40k player than fantasy, but apparently I'm better at WHFB than I thought.
The only army I have a decent amount of experience playing is Lizardmen, since our group all started new armies for 8th edition, and previously I'd never played Fantasy.
I considered Beastmen but even as a novice I could tell that they weren't the army for me, so I turned my attention to the other races WHFB presents me with. I asked myself: 'What do I like? What characteristics am I looking for?'
And I answered myself, somewhat schizophrenically: 'Big hard blocks of infantry, big monsters the size of my fist, and last, but definately not least, pure magical face-breaking awesomeness.'
Under these conditions, the armies which jumped at me were Daemons and Lizardmen. Tie-breaker: Which army do I think is cooler? For me, its Lizards all the way.
After playing twenty or so games with my Lizardmen, fighting foes ranging from High Elves to, well, Dark Elves, I, and many of my comrades have come to a vital conclusion: Teclis is a wanker. No, in all seriousness, he is a wanker.(Interjection from The Lieutenant: I'm okay with it.)
Really, though, Lizardmen are a top tier army in WHFB, and the remainder of this article will be me trying to explain why I think this. I'll look at my army and explore why it works. First things first, the Almighty Slann.
Hi folks. I'm Clayman, I'm more of a 40k player than fantasy, but apparently I'm better at WHFB than I thought.
The only army I have a decent amount of experience playing is Lizardmen, since our group all started new armies for 8th edition, and previously I'd never played Fantasy.
I considered Beastmen but even as a novice I could tell that they weren't the army for me, so I turned my attention to the other races WHFB presents me with. I asked myself: 'What do I like? What characteristics am I looking for?'
And I answered myself, somewhat schizophrenically: 'Big hard blocks of infantry, big monsters the size of my fist, and last, but definately not least, pure magical face-breaking awesomeness.'
Under these conditions, the armies which jumped at me were Daemons and Lizardmen. Tie-breaker: Which army do I think is cooler? For me, its Lizards all the way.
After playing twenty or so games with my Lizardmen, fighting foes ranging from High Elves to, well, Dark Elves, I, and many of my comrades have come to a vital conclusion: Teclis is a wanker. No, in all seriousness, he is a wanker.(Interjection from The Lieutenant: I'm okay with it.)
Really, though, Lizardmen are a top tier army in WHFB, and the remainder of this article will be me trying to explain why I think this. I'll look at my army and explore why it works. First things first, the Almighty Slann.
I equip mine with the Focus of Mystery, The Focussed Rumination, BSB and the Standard of Discipline. This comes to 365 glorious points. Magically, he knows every spell in the lore he chooses(In my case Life, so thats important) and gets 1 free power dice on every spell he casts. I hardly need to mention the fact he's a level 4 wizard. As the army General, LD10 re-rollable. Cold Blooded and the aforementioned points essentially means my army doesn't fail LD tests. Its very hard to kill through anything with a S value, or anything that gives me my 4+ ward. He's in a unit of Temple Guard, which is a major contributing factor to his utter inkillability.His vulnerability is to spells which require a characteristic test(Dwellers, Crack's Call), and, should one of these spells reach him, I've just lost my General, my BSB, and my Lv4, which causes an irreparable amount of damage to my army. Fortunately, he's never died, seeing as I seem to be incredible at passing those occasional characteristic tests.
So, onto the Engine of the Gods section.(Hero section. But really, Engine of the Gods section.)
Mine has a bare-bones, Lv1 Skink on an Engine.Despite having no bonus equipment, this is only 10pts cheaper than my Slann. On more than one occasion its Gungan Bubble shield(Portent of Warding) has saved my scales, and earned all of those points back. Burning Alignment is, by the way, hilarious to activate in the middle of an MSU Skaven army. (Interjection by Archnomad: And by hilarious, you mean fuck you.) Arcane Configuration. I've used this once, and that was just to prove a point, not because there was any tactical purpose. On top of these cool-ass abilities, it is still an Ancient Stegadon. This means it can take fire at range, but in combat the Skink priest is hugely vulnerable. And of course, if the Priest dies, I lose all of the cool-ass abilities mentioned above.
Onto the wonderfully convenient Core.
 |
| I'm Blue, If I Were Green I Would Die. |
I didn't realise when I chose Lizardmen that 20 Saurus+Command would be 250pts exactly, but I'm sure as hell glad it is. As you can imagine, my mandatory core is two blocks of these. S and T 4 and 2 Attack each and a 4+ save, these guys pack quite a punch, but they can also take damage in return. However, low WS and I don't help the unit. They're convenient, fairly sturdy and can dish out some decent hurt in combat.
The Temple Guard, on the other hand, were originally put in as an anti-hydra unit (we really really don't like hydras). 2 S5 attacks each and the Banner of Eternal Flame(Flaming attacks) meant they fulfilled this position admirably. As an added bonus, the Slann becomes Stubborn, gets a Look Out Sir, and can't be hit in CC. They're also Immune to Psychology, which means the Slann is safe from stuff like LD bombs, terror (ha!) and fear, but they can't flee. In addition they benefit from Earth Blood(Regenerate). A 3+ save from shooting is nice. This unit is very expensive, and still suffers from low I, but hey, they kick absolute arse in combat as well.
Rare choices, well, lets have another Ancient Stegadon. That's always fun. Combine Impact hits and Thunderstomp, and this baby will crush any infantry into the ground, from Chosen to Skavenslaves. It doesn't care about I, T or armour save in this scenario. It is aptly equipped to deal with any infantry my Saurus aren't.
Finally, last but in no way least, my unit of 3 Salamanders. These guys have amassed a kill-count unforeseen in any game system ever played. The unit gets three flamer templates which are more accurate than the rules would let on, and with the rise of 20mm base armies can be hitting 12 (or more) models a turn each. S3 is a downside, but mass of hits, and -3 to the armour save makes up for this entirely. Since now they can march and shoot, that 12" move up the flank +8" template +Artillery dice means they have a longer range than you might think. They aren't too shabby in combat either, but given that they never get into combat, that doesn't really matter.
Well, I've gone through my army and explained the huge amounts of win which seep out of every pore. Lizardmen are a great army to play, I have a lot of fun with them, and I'd heartily recommend them to anyone.
The one unit I'm dying to try out is Chameleon Skinks, but, children, thats a story for another day.
>>Archnomad here.
The Temple Guard, on the other hand, were originally put in as an anti-hydra unit (we really really don't like hydras). 2 S5 attacks each and the Banner of Eternal Flame(Flaming attacks) meant they fulfilled this position admirably. As an added bonus, the Slann becomes Stubborn, gets a Look Out Sir, and can't be hit in CC. They're also Immune to Psychology, which means the Slann is safe from stuff like LD bombs, terror (ha!) and fear, but they can't flee. In addition they benefit from Earth Blood(Regenerate). A 3+ save from shooting is nice. This unit is very expensive, and still suffers from low I, but hey, they kick absolute arse in combat as well.
Rare choices, well, lets have another Ancient Stegadon. That's always fun. Combine Impact hits and Thunderstomp, and this baby will crush any infantry into the ground, from Chosen to Skavenslaves. It doesn't care about I, T or armour save in this scenario. It is aptly equipped to deal with any infantry my Saurus aren't.
Finally, last but in no way least, my unit of 3 Salamanders. These guys have amassed a kill-count unforeseen in any game system ever played. The unit gets three flamer templates which are more accurate than the rules would let on, and with the rise of 20mm base armies can be hitting 12 (or more) models a turn each. S3 is a downside, but mass of hits, and -3 to the armour save makes up for this entirely. Since now they can march and shoot, that 12" move up the flank +8" template +Artillery dice means they have a longer range than you might think. They aren't too shabby in combat either, but given that they never get into combat, that doesn't really matter.
Well, I've gone through my army and explained the huge amounts of win which seep out of every pore. Lizardmen are a great army to play, I have a lot of fun with them, and I'd heartily recommend them to anyone.
The one unit I'm dying to try out is Chameleon Skinks, but, children, thats a story for another day.
>>Archnomad here.
Righty folks, there you have it. Clayman's lengthy summary of his Lizardmen Army will have hopefully provided you with an insight to how the thinking player plays Lizardmen, perhaps Warhammer in general. At any rate this is an army which is very different from my own, in that it beats people up in close combat and can't run MSU very well. It can bloody noses with magic like mine (read: better than mine) as well but because of the default (no really) lore choice of Slann it tends to take a more supportive role in the game. Actually it's more like denial than supportive. Go read my lore of life article (http://kavzar.blogspot.com/2010/10/matter-of-life-and-death-part-one.html) for more on it.In any case Lizzies are definitely an army you should be worrying about if you see your opponent setting them up across from you. Maybe later we'll have an article on how to beat them (it involves purple sun, a shot glass of whisky and a shotgun) but as Clayman says that's a story for another time.
Hope you guys (and girls) enjoyed the article. Also Jurassic Park.
Na na na na na, na na na na na....
;]
Edit;
To clarify, here's the list:
The Lizardmen Army
Lord
Slann Mage Priest
Battle Standard Bearer
The Focussed Rumination
Focus of Mystery
Standard of Discipline
365
Hero
Skink Priest
Engine of the Gods
355
Core
20 Saurus Warriors
Full Command
250
20 Saurus Warriors
Full Command
250
Special
15 Temple Guard
Champion and Standard Bearer
Standard of Eternal Flame
274
Rare
Ancient Stegadon
275
3 Salamanders
225
1994
Thursday 14 October 2010
But most of all, I like the way you move. Part One.
Right folks. This is an article about the movement phase. Definitely the most important phase of WHFB. This is where your games will be won and lost. Yeah, big talk. Big decisions. As a note, this is the phase that differs most from 40k, of the big 3.So, movement. Huh, well, I'm gonna need to break this down. For now, we'll cover remaining moves. "Remaining moves? Isn't that a weird place to start?"
Not really, it's where the majority of your movement will be done to be honest. So, what is the remaining move phase? Well, if it's not a charge, a flee or a doomwheel (or the like) then this is when it will move. This is the phase for general, all inclusive, utility movement.
So let's cover the basics.
THE MOVE
Your unit moves up to it's movement characteristic in a straight line. See, this stuff isn't so hard. This is a tactic commonly employed by armies like WoC and Orcs and Goblins.
THE WHEEL
This was a revolutionary invention, allowing units that otherwise had to struggle with square movements to get about in a much easier manner. This is when you keep one front corner of a unit still, and move the other. Erm, the rulebook explains it better. Basically if you're tilting to a slight angle, you'll be doing this. It's commonly used to get into position when marching up to the enemy to pound his face into the back of his skull.
THE MARCH
This is something your troops can do all the time (unless they're a war machine or chariot). It doubles your movement. You, like I say, can always do this unless you're within 8" of an enemy or a flyer, in which case you need to pass a leadership test. You can combine this with the wheel, but not the reform, or the swift reform. An interesting note. If you attempt to march within 8" of an enemy and fail your LD test you count as marching. Even if you then elect to not bother moving. Also, if the enemy unit within 8" is fleeing it doesn't impede marching.
THE REFORM
This is when you turn a unit about on its centre point to face any direction. Basically a pivot. But in addition, while doing one you can change the ranks to any formation you wish. Like I say, you have to keep the centre point the same. In addition, none of your models can move more than twice their movement stat. No reforming across the table for you sir! This is what you do after combat is engaged, either that or you do it swiftly. Since swift reform became available, I rarely find myself performing a reform. Which brings us nicely to this;
THE SWIFT REFORM
Ah, one of my favourite rules in 8th edition. It's very very underused. what this does is, if you have a musician and pass a leadership test, allows you to make a reform and then still move. In addition, you can shoot. "Shit batman, does that mean my handgunners can do this?" No, you count as moving sadly. However it does mean troops like, i dunno, Dark Elf crossbowmen can. In addition, take the army TheLieutenant played against myself with in my battlereport. He played in his big blocks. He should have marched up in units 2 ranks deep (so 10 wide), and as he got close, swift reformed back into position? Why? It reduces the number of template hits I do to him. Very nice rule, very underused. Be the guy that uses it.
Ok, so now we know the basics of movement.
Putting them into practice however... Well, we're gonna talk about something very near and dear to my heart. Redirection, blocking, general irritation, whatever you wanna call it.
REDIRECTION
This changed in 8th edition. It changed a lot. First I'll outline what used to happen. You have your big, nasty, stupendously powerful unit. Let's call it Killsaw. Killsaw can go through your army like a chainsaw going through an egg. However you have a cheap unit that costs you 2% of your overall army cost. Let's call it Clive. What you used to do is place Clive at an angle so that Killsaw couldn't move forward past Clive, and it had to charge Clive. Clive would flee out of range and Killsaw would be left high and dry. Clive was usually fast cavalry, so could constantly do this.
However, in the current edition Killsaw can take a leadership test to charge a new eligible target, which makes redirects a little harder, in that you have to do it the hard way. You have to hold, then they either turn around or overrun. You need to make it so that both options put them in an irritating place to be. For example, in my battle report against High Elves I had it so that if he overran he'd be out of position, but if he reformed I could just run another redirector in at an awkward angle, which would pull him (very slowly) out of position.
 |
| Here we see the rats pulling the White Lions out of position into the slaves. Either that or out in the open for shooting. |
Other options include putting your redirector at an angle so that if they don't overrun they get flank charged, regardless of what way they face. Basically, these days, it just buys you a turn of movement, sometimes more. It's a great thing to do in a shooty army, and I'd advise they should all take quite a few redirection units. Another way to do redirection, and this requires more resources, but against deathstars it's viable. You need to make it so that the only option they have after combat is overrunning. It's doable, especially if your redirector can fly or is a skirmisher. After that you need a second redirector 6.1" behind your first redirector. So they charge, kill redirector 1, and overrun into redirector 2. Buying you another turn. Like I say, it's not always preferably, but there can be times it's advantageous.
You'll notice I said 6.1". This brings us nicely to the bad of redirection. Panic. Yeah, it screws my army over big time. What's the problem? Well if a unit (i.e. your redirector) is destroyed in combat (which it should be) then all your units within 6" need to take a panic check. Now with a general and BSB nearby it's not too big a deal, but it's still inconvenient. Especially if your general gets dwellers'd. But for most armies this isn't a problem at all, as LD7 and LD8 is the standard. Not my army's LD5.
Hope this gives you guys an insight into movement in WHFB. There will be more to come, I barely got started.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
Wednesday 13 October 2010
A Matter of Life and Death. Part Two.
So folks, back again to touch on a matter of Life and Death. This time we're on the Lore of Death. This, I believe is the best "killy" lore in the BRB. Not because it destroys units wholesale. No, because it will absolutely obliterate important models. At least, if you know how to use it. Also, Soulblight can swing entire turns in your favour. Finally, Purple Sun can swing entire games in your favour. Enjoy.
Lore Attribute: Life Leeching
One of the things that makes this a powerhouse lore. Especially combined with our friends the Druchii and their damn power of darkness. Well, lets see. Spells we have that cause damage, 4. One of them is Purple Sun, which can (and often does) bring you back up to 12 dice per casting. Stupid attribute. But it's nice even if you do 3 or so wounds and get a dice back. Solid attribute, helps the lore get all it's spells through.
Default Spell: Spirit Leech ***
This is a weird one. It's good... sometimes. Usually when this is good, it's really good. For example, against my army it's great for hurting my grey seers. But sometimes it's just not good. It's also great against things like Stegadons, as long as they're not near the LD10 Slann. However this lore specialises in bumping off generals, so that can be arranged!
Spell#1: Aspect of the Dreadknight*
Bleh. With the rise of LD and rerolls, as well as the number of ItP armies out there this is a definite "meh". It can be not bad combined with doom and darkness though, especially if you bump off the general. It's also easy to cast. But after the nerf of fear, I'd rather have something else. That said, it is REALLY easy to cast. Feel free to throw a random dice at it.
Spell#2 Caress of Laniph ***
This is a pretty good spell for bumping off heroes. Especially mages. On average this does 2 wounds to a strength 3 model. Basically this spell bumps off level 2 mages, or other important low strength models. Or teclis. Teclis does not like this spell. However this does tend to get underused compared to its big brother Fate of Bjuna. It is a good spell and not a bad thing, especially if you're bumping off a BSB.
Spell#3 Soulblight*****
Mhm, now we have the big daddy. Well, the big daddy debuff. The spell shadow wishes it had. Note it's 5 stars. That's only for the big version. And boy is it big. -1S and -1T for all enemies within 24" is HUGE. Especially for the army I advise use death the most. Dark Elves. -1T across the board pretty much means RxBows have their big weakness removed. However if you're any other army using this lore, you should still see a huge effect from this spell. It is massive. I shouldn't even need to explain it. I will however try to sum it up in a word. Quantohorribilific. That's not right, but it's damn close.
Spell#4 Doom and Darkness ****
Ah a classic spell, that's now for some reason really easy to cast! Fantastic. So, uses for this spell include casting it on the general. Other uses are combining it with Spirit Leech. A good spell as well for the aforementioned DE gunline. Reducing the enemy general to LD6 is a good way to get people to panic (most armies will be LD7 or LD8 then). If you can combine that with assassinating the BSB with the following spell, then good for you!
Spell#5 Fate of Bjuna*****
Ah this is absolutely fantastic. Great for getting rid of pretty much anything, but especially characters. This is a great cast on enemy lv4s to establish magical dominance for the rest of the game. On average against a lvl4 you'll do 4 wounds. Woopity! This is pretty much the premier assassination spell of the game. I'm really just trying to fill space here, Death is a fairly simple lore... it's all about the execution, but that differs so much it'd be hard to teach. Basically this spell is best used to establish magical dominance, and then pick off the remaning elements of the opponents army, like the BSB. Difficult spell to talk about in depth though... this isn't the most subtle lore. Like I say though it can require a bit of finesse. Unlike this next spell.
Spell#6 Purple Sun of Xereus ******
Ho hum. Herp a derp. Derp derp derp. Herp derp derp derp.
Ok seriously. This spell isn't actually all it's cracked up to be. Why? Ever tried casting it against elves? It's a very selective spell. However it does have its uses. Demolishing artillery and armies with standard I3 or lower is one of them. The other is acting as a battery. Basically, if you're going for important targets, then plain go for it. If it's single models don't feel the need to use the large blast. Seriously, sorry this lore doesn't go very in depth, but when it's so blunt and sledgehammery, it's hard to talk about, anyway. However, if you're trying to battery, fire it wherever you're likely to cause the most wounds and reap those power dice! This is why I dislike the Dark Elf magic phase so much. Getting a bonus eleventy billion dice per turn isn't exactly fun. You'll notice I mention DE a lot in this article. They rock with Soul Leeching and Power of Darkness. Stupid amounts of dice, 60% of the time, all the time.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
Stay Classy.
Monday 11 October 2010
The 2k MSU Skaven Shooting Army MK II.I
So here we go. Revamped again, with a fair few significant changes. There's a very noticeable one I'd love some feedback on. To the list!
Lords
Grey Seer (general)
240
Grey Seer
Power Scroll
260
Ho hum. Why 2 seers you ask? Well between them I get 8 spells, most of the time I'll probably have every good skaven spell available. I also get Dreaded 13th twice. And with 2 casts a turn, even with no power scroll i'm likely to get it off. "But you'll almost never get 12 dice every turn!" Of course, but over the course of the game I should get it twice or more. Why? Well these two get 2D3 Warpstone tokens (i.e. extra dice, one use only) in addition to a power scroll (essentially 2 tokens tied together) and between them have a 1/3 chance to channel. So assuming averages it's not unlikely for me to fire out 12 dice in a turn when I rolled a 3,2.
This also means that if my seer gets thumped by dwellers or another one of those stupid spells I have a backup seer!
Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Warlock Engineer
15
Warlock Engineer
15
The cost for the extra wizard came from my Warlock. I think 2 LV4s and a LV1 is too much. He kept his rocket though.
Chieftan
Shield
BSB
72
He picked up a shield.
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Standard of Discipline
Warpfire Thrower
165
Standard of Discipline, the general goes here. I have no idea why I didn't take it sooner. LD8 for all!
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
Standard MSU Stormvermin, WFTs are awesome. Although with 3 I expect some explosions.
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
More rats. I love these things. I find the tiny footprint and M6 makes a big difference.
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
Staple line fillers, that shoot, redirect and don't cause panic. Woo!
Special
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
These guys are AWESOME. I don't think I'll ever run without the full 15. They just irritate people so much. I love them. :3
3 Jezzails
60
3 Jezzails
60
Staying because they've done me proud over the course of a few games. Sniping out important targets or just taking down heavy infantry and cavalry.
5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers
Poisoned Wind Mortar
115
While over the course of my games these haven't done much, they only cost 50pts so it's to be expected. I wish you could take units of 2 still though.
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Do I need a reason? I Think these two are up there with the Seer for "made most points this edition". I'm going to start counting from now. Hehehe.
So, what? Why don't I have any doomwheels or a hellpit? Well, the hellpit would be nice, I'm not going to lie. But I think just one of them will get shot up and die all too easily. Doomwheels I'm not a fan of because they don't really synergise with this army. They're good yes, but the fact I can't hold them back voluntarily bothers me. Whereas I wouldn't have any need to hold back a Hellpit.
Well, there's the list. What do we think?
1999
Read more!
Lords
Grey Seer (general)
240
Grey Seer
Power Scroll
260
Ho hum. Why 2 seers you ask? Well between them I get 8 spells, most of the time I'll probably have every good skaven spell available. I also get Dreaded 13th twice. And with 2 casts a turn, even with no power scroll i'm likely to get it off. "But you'll almost never get 12 dice every turn!" Of course, but over the course of the game I should get it twice or more. Why? Well these two get 2D3 Warpstone tokens (i.e. extra dice, one use only) in addition to a power scroll (essentially 2 tokens tied together) and between them have a 1/3 chance to channel. So assuming averages it's not unlikely for me to fire out 12 dice in a turn when I rolled a 3,2.
This also means that if my seer gets thumped by dwellers or another one of those stupid spells I have a backup seer!
Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Warlock Engineer
15
Warlock Engineer
15
The cost for the extra wizard came from my Warlock. I think 2 LV4s and a LV1 is too much. He kept his rocket though.
Chieftan
Shield
BSB
72
He picked up a shield.
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Standard of Discipline
Warpfire Thrower
165
Standard of Discipline, the general goes here. I have no idea why I didn't take it sooner. LD8 for all!
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
Standard MSU Stormvermin, WFTs are awesome. Although with 3 I expect some explosions.
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
More rats. I love these things. I find the tiny footprint and M6 makes a big difference.
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
Staple line fillers, that shoot, redirect and don't cause panic. Woo!
Special
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
These guys are AWESOME. I don't think I'll ever run without the full 15. They just irritate people so much. I love them. :3
3 Jezzails
60
3 Jezzails
60
Staying because they've done me proud over the course of a few games. Sniping out important targets or just taking down heavy infantry and cavalry.
5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers
Poisoned Wind Mortar
115
While over the course of my games these haven't done much, they only cost 50pts so it's to be expected. I wish you could take units of 2 still though.
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Do I need a reason? I Think these two are up there with the Seer for "made most points this edition". I'm going to start counting from now. Hehehe.
So, what? Why don't I have any doomwheels or a hellpit? Well, the hellpit would be nice, I'm not going to lie. But I think just one of them will get shot up and die all too easily. Doomwheels I'm not a fan of because they don't really synergise with this army. They're good yes, but the fact I can't hold them back voluntarily bothers me. Whereas I wouldn't have any need to hold back a Hellpit.
Well, there's the list. What do we think?
1999
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You Suck And This Is Why. Part II.
Once again we have an installment of You Suck And This is Why. Now I realise some of you might find this offensive, as people don't like being told when they're wrong, or how they're bad at something. Frankly, it's good for you. I recently learned, for example, that fleeing units don't keep fleeing if they're charged successfully. They die. So, to the article!POINT A
Well, here's one. Fleeing units don't keep fleeing if successfully charged. They die. This is pretty big, all said. It means a unit that breaks from a nearby unit dying in combat is quite likely (circumstance providing) to bite the bullet if they don't rally quickly. Not much I can say about this, it's just nasty.
POINT B
This relates nicely to the new charge system. What's changes is you declare a charge, resolve reaction, rinse repeat till they're all declared. Then you resolve them in any order you wish. Yeah, that's big. So say you're charged by a bloodthirster and Daemonettes. You opt to stand and shoot the daemonettes, but flee from the thirster. So clever, you think. The Daemon Player can just opt to charge with the Bloodthirster first, so you flee and don't get your stand and shoot. Who's clever now? I find that the new system helps chargers a lot, but doesn't do much for the chargee (i.e. myself). But hey, if I can have Warp Lightning Cannons you can have this rule.
POINT C
This next point touches back to a previous artile I wrote, about shooting in 8th edition. This is something that may seem like common sense, but after some of the things I've witnessed... Well basically, it isn't apparently. This applies to magic too. As a general rule, fire weapons that use templates, or use the number of models in the unit as the number of hits, or have any kind of mechanism where the number of models in the unit increases the damage of whatever it is hitting them FIRST. Watching a Dwarf Player fire his Organ Gun into some Black Orcs and halfing the unit, then getting half the hits with his Grudge Thrower on same unit is just depressing! Obviously there's exceptions. For example in my batrep I fired all my weapons before my WLC at a unit of white lions, so the unit would be small enough for the WLC to pick Teclis out (and I nailed him, the arrogant SOAB). However, as a general rule, templates first folks. I can't believe this made it on here. >_<
POINT D
Ok this next bit involves magics. No you're not getting a magic article yet! Back in your cages! However, it is pretty important. It's on the matter of dispulsion. Imagine, pray, that we have an army with a solitary level 4 wizard and a level 2 wizard, up against an army with a level 2 wizard and a level 4 wizard. The level 2 wizard casts a spell on some number, like a 5. Now, you know the level 4 wizard has some big spells to churn out, and you want your level 4 around to dispel those. What do you do? No timmy, you don't use your level 4 to powerhouse his small casting value. You use your level 2. Why? Well...
Ok this next bit involves magics. No you're not getting a magic article yet! Back in your cages! However, it is pretty important. It's on the matter of dispulsion. Imagine, pray, that we have an army with a solitary level 4 wizard and a level 2 wizard, up against an army with a level 2 wizard and a level 4 wizard. The level 2 wizard casts a spell on some number, like a 5. Now, you know the level 4 wizard has some big spells to churn out, and you want your level 4 around to dispel those. What do you do? No timmy, you don't use your level 4 to powerhouse his small casting value. You use your level 2. Why? Well...
With your level 4 you might be tempted to one dice it. However there's a 1/3 chance you roll a 1-2 and automatically fail and he can't dispel anything for the rest of the phase. Damn, that'd suck. So once dicing it is out. However you're guaranteed to either dispel it on two dice with a level 2 or 4, or just roll a 2. So why in the name of all that's holy would you bother using your level 4?Obviously this is a very simple scenario, but I'm just trying to convey the message. You don't always want to use your level 4 to dispel things when other options are available. Just sayin.
POINT E
Finally, a small point I have and would like to put a fair bit of emphasis on. It's very important for armies like mine with bad across the board LD, where panic is a problem. The point is correct spacing of units. Now I admit it's impossible to have all your units spread out 6". But what you should do is have fragile units that are likely to be wiped out by shooting/magic spread out, and bridge the spaces with bigger units, or units that dont cause panic. Small point, but an important one. You can see some examples of where I did (or didn't! >:) do this in my Batrep.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
Sunday 10 October 2010
The 2k MSU Skaven Shooting Army MK I.II
Ok folks, so in 4 games my plagueclaw catapults have done precisely fuck all to make their points back. Which is just great in my opinion. So this means I'm restructuring my list a bit. In addition, I'm not so sold on Poisoned Wind Mortars, but I think I'm going to keep one just cause they do come in handy.
So with that said I'm thinking about what I want to do with my army. All my Stormvermin are now going to be running around with a friendly Warpfire Thrower team, which puts me at 2004. Then I'm dropping 2 Plagueclaws which puts me at 1804. What do I spend those points on folks? Well I have a few thoughts running through my head at the moment, and they are as follows.
Hellpit Abomination
This would be nice, it'd give me some combat punch that isn't exactly slow. However it'd be the only big thing in the army, and barring the grey seer it's the most expensive single model, being over 115pts. This makes it a big (hard to kill, but still big) target.
More Jezzails
While this would give me more ability to kill things from a distance I don't see them doing much more damage than the catapults I dropped. However on the flip side of that I see them doing more damage to things I struggle to kill. Something to consider.
Plague Censer Bearers
These are a unit I could happily run 2 or 3 of. The problem is they're frenzied and I'd have trouble restraining them, in addition to the fact they're only I3. Very very very killy. But only I3. Still it's something to consider. They also fall nicely into MSU.
More Redirectors
Often I've found another turn of redirection could've won me games, or at least sections of the board I was struggling in. I think this is something I'm putting in regardless of what I eventually decide to add.
A 2nd grey seer
I've found skaven magic is really really brutal, but twice now I've had my seer roll duff spells, which aren't really much help to me. This would mitigate that somewhat. However I find if my magic phase is really ineffective it's because I roll low dice, so go figure.
Cheap units of maybe 30 slaves to hold up opposing units while I shoot the shit out of them
This is somewhere in the redirectors thing. It gives me something to redirect to, but doesn't cause mass panic in any circumstance. Something I could find very useful. However in my last game a 4ft board hindered me because I couldn't spread enough to stop mass panic developing from redirectors dying.
Something that can fight quick and brutal in CC, like idk a warlord on bonebreaker
Basically because nothing in my list can fight and it folds like a wet paper bag. And some units are just a nightmare to deal with out of combat.
To recap, my list at the moment, with these changes is this;
Lord
Grey Seer
Power Scroll
275
Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Level 1
Warp-Energy Condenser
Doomrocket
115
Warlock Engineer
15
Warlock Engineer
15
Chieftan
BSB
70
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
Special
5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers
Poisoned Wind Mortar
115
5 Gutter Runners
Poison
Slings
90
5 Gutter Runners
Poison
Slings
90
5 Gutter Runners
Poison
Slings
90
3 Jezzails
60
3 Jezzails
60
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
So what would you recommend? Thanks folks!
Read more!
So with that said I'm thinking about what I want to do with my army. All my Stormvermin are now going to be running around with a friendly Warpfire Thrower team, which puts me at 2004. Then I'm dropping 2 Plagueclaws which puts me at 1804. What do I spend those points on folks? Well I have a few thoughts running through my head at the moment, and they are as follows.
Hellpit Abomination
This would be nice, it'd give me some combat punch that isn't exactly slow. However it'd be the only big thing in the army, and barring the grey seer it's the most expensive single model, being over 115pts. This makes it a big (hard to kill, but still big) target.
More Jezzails
While this would give me more ability to kill things from a distance I don't see them doing much more damage than the catapults I dropped. However on the flip side of that I see them doing more damage to things I struggle to kill. Something to consider.
Plague Censer Bearers
These are a unit I could happily run 2 or 3 of. The problem is they're frenzied and I'd have trouble restraining them, in addition to the fact they're only I3. Very very very killy. But only I3. Still it's something to consider. They also fall nicely into MSU.
More Redirectors
Often I've found another turn of redirection could've won me games, or at least sections of the board I was struggling in. I think this is something I'm putting in regardless of what I eventually decide to add.
A 2nd grey seer
I've found skaven magic is really really brutal, but twice now I've had my seer roll duff spells, which aren't really much help to me. This would mitigate that somewhat. However I find if my magic phase is really ineffective it's because I roll low dice, so go figure.
Cheap units of maybe 30 slaves to hold up opposing units while I shoot the shit out of them
This is somewhere in the redirectors thing. It gives me something to redirect to, but doesn't cause mass panic in any circumstance. Something I could find very useful. However in my last game a 4ft board hindered me because I couldn't spread enough to stop mass panic developing from redirectors dying.
Something that can fight quick and brutal in CC, like idk a warlord on bonebreaker
Basically because nothing in my list can fight and it folds like a wet paper bag. And some units are just a nightmare to deal with out of combat.
To recap, my list at the moment, with these changes is this;
Lord
Grey Seer
Power Scroll
275
Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Level 1
Warp-Energy Condenser
Doomrocket
115
Warlock Engineer
15
Warlock Engineer
15
Chieftan
BSB
70
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
Special
5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers
Poisoned Wind Mortar
115
5 Gutter Runners
Poison
Slings
90
5 Gutter Runners
Poison
Slings
90
5 Gutter Runners
Poison
Slings
90
3 Jezzails
60
3 Jezzails
60
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
So what would you recommend? Thanks folks!
Read more!
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