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This is more a mental exercise than anything else. I think the game is really really broken at or above 3000. But I want to see how the "no magic" approach works here, because the effect of it is lessened the higher points you play. On the flip side it makes panicking a much bigger problem. Mostly cause you'll be more spread out and prone to panic. Anyway...
Lord
Warlord
Dragonhelm
Shield
103
Well there's not much I can really do for my general. So a 3+/6++ and a 2++ vs fire is gonna have to do you sir.
Heroes
Chieftan
Shield
BSB
The Storm Banner
122
Having the option to activate this is always gonna be nice. Especially if there's flyers I need to deal with.
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Warlock Engineer
15
Pretty standard fare really. I'm quite light on heroes. But you'll see why.
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Banner of Discipline
Warpfire Thrower
165
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
Keep scrolling down...
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
Almost there...
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
10 Stormvermin
Warpfire Thrower
140
Righty, here we are. Yeah, that's a lot of Stormvermin with Warpfire Throwers isn't it. Would you like to be looking at 12 Warpfire Throwers across the board? Especially with the artillery backup these lads have. I didn't think so.
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
5 Giant Rats
Packmaster
23
These are my favourite redirector. Small footprint but not that likely to cause panic because they very rarely get wiped out to a man. It's nice. In addition in 3k I'd expect a lot of warmachines (>10 from empire) and these are great to run straight at warmachine crews. Really, give it a go.
Special
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
5 Gutter Runners
Slings
Poison
90
What's better than 3 units of gutter runners? Like I say, I expect war machines to be all over the shop in 3k, these guys help mitigate that problem. I love these guys to pieces. :3
Rare
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Oh jesus christ... That's a LOT of power. Warp Lightning Cannons are silly good for their points.
So how does this army play. Well, in Watchtower you get to do 12D6 S5 hits to units in the Watchtower on turn one (lol). But seriously, against a combatty army you march the redirectors up, with the WFTs about 8" or so behind. Then you open fire. Your redirectors die but they buy you another turn of shooting. Gutter Runners and WLCs of course just do their thing.
Against a shooty army you keep your WFTs behind the vermin for hard cover (or BLOS, Stormvermin are big skaven) while advancing up toward their gunline. Chances are, with the stormbanner especially, they're not gonna be able to stop 120 stormvermin AND 12 Warpfire throwers from making it there.
So aye, what do we reckon? :P Personally I think that this kind (the no magic one) of army works better at higher point levels, because, like I said, magic has it's effect lessened. Hell, the 4k version of this would just have another 70 stormvermin with warpfire throwers in attendance. Man I wanna play that army. Lol.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
What exactly does a "redirector" mean? I've heard the term a few times and I'm not sure what that means. I'm pretty new to 8th so that's probably why.
ReplyDeleteHey I have an on hand explanation!
ReplyDeletehttp://kavzar.blogspot.com/2010/10/but-most-of-all-i-like-way-you-move.html
If you skip to halfway down the page there's a whole big spiel on redirection, with a picture!
^^
The jist of it is it's a unit that gets in the way of your opponent. Stopping them from getting where they want to be, or taking them in the complete wrong direction. (:
Ah. Thanks. I get the concept but I think it's one of those things that I need to practice in order to get it to sink in. Excellent articles, by the way.
ReplyDeleteThis list is a cute TheoryHammer list. The simple fact of the matter though is that if you do play an empire or dwarf, or another Skaven gunline, they own you.
ReplyDeleteSure 4 WLC can do a good bit of damage, but if you are marching toward me, you cannot shoot the WFTs, and if you activate the Stormbanner, you will be effected by it half of the time on your turn. Sure, you can just move that turn, but Stormbanner does not stop Magic Missiles which are good enough to down either a Weapon Team or most of a redirector unit.
I know, even if they kill 3 or 4 WFTs a turn through return magic and shooting, you are still ahead of the game when it lets loose, but if instead of shooting the WFTs, they try to shoot your BSB and Generals unit, you suddenly get Ld6 panic checks which are no picnic, and believe me, one hill in the opponents zone and you can kill 10 SV and a character.
This is clearly an 80% list, 80% of the time, you will do just fine, but 20% of the time you do not have a prayer, other than the other player making a mistake.
Could you give the profile on the Warp Lightning Cannons? I'm not as familiar with Skaven as I probably should be, lol
ReplyDeleteSick git! The only thing i would suggest is trading some WFT for PWM.
ReplyDeleteWarp Lightning cannons fire like normal cannons, but place a small blast template at the final 'bounce' point. The strength of the shot isn't automatically 10, it is the number rolled on the artillery dice for the 'bounce' roll.
ReplyDeleteThats about it. :)
Yeah, we've had a huge discussion about PWM vs WFTs, and honestly, I'm not sure. Archy used his 2000pt no-magic list against Clayman's Lizards the other day, and got thumped, but that was more due to the fact it was the first time he'd tried using it than a failure of the list.
I like PWM, but thats mainly cause I started the hobby on shooty HE(Way back in 6th ed), and I like shooting. Not now, cause White Lions are awesome, but I still have a soft spot.
I don't know about another gun line owning him. I'll leave Archy to comment on that, but stuff moves a lot faster now, and those Stormvermin which are normally re-rirectors, can take handgunner units and such in combat.
And theres a LOT of them.
The game really seems to break down at 3000+. 12+ cannons of any sort is just ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteNot really all because theres always stuff like skinks, and lore of light to counter a gunline.
ReplyDeleteLore of light is a not bad counter but magic isn't difficult to stop (and if you're gunlining you should probably bring magic). In addition who actually brings the lore of light? Net of Amtyok and Birona's Timewarp are nice I suppose, but in most cases you can take better lores.
ReplyDeleteSkinks? Do you mean chameleons? Sure skirmishers are pretty quick on their feet but I wouldn't call them reliable. A good gunline will have a good counter to fast troops. (:
However there's fuck all you can do about eating 30 blowpipes on turn one. Short of deploying properly.
So I guess there is something you can do. Lol. Fortunately most people don't. ^^