.jpg)
Well I mentioned it in the comments at least. Now this will be a living thread (as will the (MSU) shooting army thread. When it gets made. Now the reason I bracketed MSU is because that's very much subject to change. MSU is something I haven't really looked in to playtesting extensively. The reason I'm starting with this thread is because I think it's going to be much much harder to perfect properly, so want to get a good head start.
WARNING: This article is kind of long. I give an overview of most skaven units, some list synergy, as well as go on a rant about the Verminlord. However I think it'll let you get inside how I think my army's through, so go ahead and read it, have fun. :3
Right, let me start by saying the premise. The idea of this list is to run a skaven army that doesn't let the enemy do very much to my 3 big hitters, while allowing those 3 big hitters to run riot all over the enemy's lovely models.
Want to get something out the way first....
(Skip this if you do not care a bit about Vermin Lords, and making "bad" units "good")
____________________________________________________________
But Will, you're taking a Vermin Lord. Do you enjoy losing? Well, I retort. Think about this. A WoC Daemon Prince who is a level 4 wizard with a D3 wounds item (I'd call that item around 30pts) is close to the cost of a Verminlord. But then you have to consider the army the Verminlord is in, in addition the fact a Verminlord has better stats than the Daemon Prince. Admittedly, a Daemon Prince doesn't afraid of anything, and is stubborn. But it's skaven. I mean, not even a Hellpit is ITP. Which is why I feel, even in this MSU army the BSB is so damn important. And BSB with Hellpit = funsauce (on the offchance you roll something stupid like feed, then a one for thunderstomp). But back off tangent, the Verminlord is something that has synergy with this list, and creates a mess of most opponent's target priority. Admittedly he's fragile, which is why I believe the Stormbanner is necessary too.
____________________________________________________________
Anyway, the rest of the army is pretty much just redirection, or dealing with threats those 3 units struggle with (high initiative monsters, or really good saves on killy troops (so chaos knights, heralds on juggers). And that (sadly) means Jezzails and PWMs. This doesn't mesh too well with the Stormbanner, but ah well what ya gonna do? Now you might ask "is this not just a shooty army with 3 big combat units?". The answer is a resounding "Yes." but those big combat units take up half of your points.
____________________________________________________________
Anyway, all that said, here's Skaven Monster Mash MK 2.O
Lord
Verminlord
500
The big daddy. Already spoke about him above, but I also feel I should mention that the model for this guy is tiny. He is so, so, so easy to hide.
Heroes
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
The general. Now I know that'll make most of you baulk, but according to my math the chance of passing LD8 rerollable is only 5% worse than LD9 rerollable, which applies to the big slave block. Anything else will either panic with or without the chieftan or is LD8.
Chieftan
BSB
Banner of Eternal Flame
80
I sometimes get looks for the banner. But I've been known to put him in a unit of Jezzails/Poisoned Wind Globadiers. Then who's laughing? I was actually going to field 8 Jezzails in one unit and add this guy, but I decided it's best as a situational thing.
Warlock Engineer
15
Hit girl. I'm going to get in your way. Ha ha ha. Kudos if anyone gets the reference...
Core
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Stormbanner
Poisoned Wind Mortar
195
Standard for Blood and Glory. Poisoned Wind Mortar for winning games.
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
I felt I needed more flaming attacks. I hate regenerate.
20 Slaves
Slings
Musician
52
Chaff. They irritate people.
53 Slaves
Musician
108
I felt the army needed one anvil. There's sometimes units you just don't have time to deal with. That's where these guys come in.
Special
5 Poisoned Wind Globadiers
Poisoned Wind Mortar
115
Cheap Poisoned Wind Mortar. And PWGs aren't bad. Mine usually do a few wounds to a monster/cavalry unit in a game, which justifies their points cost. They can also hunt warmachines (no really) and redirect stuff.
5 Gutter Runners
65
5 Gutter Runners
65
Cheap ass redirectors and war machine hunters. I don't think it's worth 25pts to make them poisoned.
4 Jezzails
80
3 Jezzails
60
Kills armour and big things so my Verminlord and Hellpits don't have to. Zounds.
Rare
Hellpit Abomination
235
Hellpit Abomination
235
Omnomnomnomnomnomnomnom....
____________________________________________________________
So there we go, I feel that sums up how I came to this list pretty well. I want to say though, this isn't me declaring this the best Skaven Combat army in the world. I just think it's a good list and I'm going to have fun playing it. I think it's competitive and pretty well thought out, but I welcome people disagreeing with me, as well as any fixes and suchlike.
Hope you enjoyed the article.
I have been looking at this, and while I think it is do-able, I just think attempting this at 2K is not good. You can probably make it work at 2.5K, but you just do not have the points to really round the list out.
ReplyDeleteI would suggest changing the PWGs for a 10 man Stormvermin unit by dropping a single Jezzail from the 4 man unit. That would give you more bodies and keep the mortar with it's 4+ ward a bit longer.
You do have a valid point, but the only thing I'd really like to add to this list is more gutter runners and jezzails. Maybe a lvl2. After that it'd be slave filler. Bear in mind if you're used to 2.5k then 2k lists can look small, but 2k is the standard where I play. =]
ReplyDeleteAs to PWGs to Stormvermin, the PWGs usually accomplish more than the stormvermin, all told. The ability to march and shoot, as well as be a skirmisher is pretty good. Keeping the 4+ ward is a valid point, but all the ward saves against is the odd small unit firing, or a fireball or something. Otherwise the weapon team will die anyway. I find keeping the team out of LoS is infinitely preferable.
Spitballed idea, what do we think of running Rogre Bonebreaker warlords as single models, with a halberd? For 161 pts you get 4 T5 wounds, and 9S5 attacks, plus stomp. Just think, you could fit in 3 of those. I'm just trying to think "MSU". It's something I want to test anyway.
But still, a close combat oriented skaven army was (for me) always going to be much harder to make than the shooty one. So when I do bring the shooty one out, it'll probably be pretty standard.
I really do want to try that 3xbonebreaker list though. That could be a right laugh.
I have not tried the Bonebreaker. I have heard lots of people talk about it, but am just not sure what kind/size of unit to put him in (or how I would convert one up, which is my real issue).
ReplyDeleteI would not try the triple bonebreaker though. Level 4 mages are just so useful in 8th. A level 2 just does not cut it nearly as well.
I had been trying a close-combat focused Skaven army in 7th, and was not satisfied with the results. I can see problems solved in 8th that prevented my success in 7th, but I just still do not see the close combat army working as well. Far too many armies are better in close combat than Skaven.
I haven't tried the bonebreaker either. And while LV4 mages are all kinds of kickass, I don't think it's totally essential. Most mages are easy to bump off if you put your mind to it.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I think you are probably right. I'm just debating whether or not I want a Verminlord in my shooty MSU list. He does fit the style pretty well, but I wouldn't like having him without the Stormbanner. I have one written up with a Seer at the moment. It's looking nice in my opinion. I'll post it shortly.
Thanks for the feedback by the way!