So this is a post about the lists I'm going to be taking to Centurion. The 1750 tourney in Australia (it's on while I'm visiting my dad, who lives there). So let's have a gander.
Ok, now originally I was going to be running:
Librarian, Shield of Sanguinius, Blood Lance
4x5 Assault Marines with Melta Gun, Razorback with TL Heavy Flamer
2x5 Assault Marines with Melta Gun and Infernus Pistol, Razorback with TL Heavy Flamer
3 Baal Predators with TL Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons
3 Predators with Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons
1750
However, now I'm eyeing up these lists, it's a pretty simple decision though. Errr, well the change is pretty simple.
List One:
Librarian with Null Zone, The Avenger and Melta Bombs
3 Dreadnoughts with 2 Twin Linked Autocannons
2x10 Tactical Marines with Flamer, Multi Melta, Combi Flamer and Rhino
1x5 Tactical Marines with Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasma Gun Razorback
3x2 Land Speeders with Heavy Flamer and Multi Melta
3 Predators with Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons
1750
Ok, that's the first list. The second list is really similar. Here we go:
Librarian with Null Zone, The Avenger
3 Dreadnoughts with 2 Twin Linked Autocannons
2x10 Tactical Marines with Flamer, Multi Melta and Rhino
2x5 Tactical Marines with Lascannon and Twin Linked Plasma Gun Razorback
1x2 Land Speeders with Heavy Flamer and Multi Melta
2x1 Land Speeders with Heavy Flamer and Multi Melta
3 Predators with Autocannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons
1750
So I drop 2 Combi Flamers, Melta Bombs and 2 Land Speeders for a unit of 5 Marines in a lasplas razor. Now, I'm going to playtest the shit out of both lists, don't get me wrong, but I don't know which one I'll end up going with.
And (funnily, at least to me) I asked Kirby for some advice, and he pointed out that my second list is the exact same as his, except he runs his speeders in two squadrons of two. Great minds think alike it seems.
Thanks folks.
Read more!
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Monday 29 November 2010
Friday 26 November 2010
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay - The Story So Far.
Just a recap and a place I can put up the current situation for my WHFRP group! (:
It also allows me to share the story so far with you guys. It wont be in much detail, but this was easily around 7 hours of roleplay, so excuse the brevity.
Ok folks, it's been a long time (a week or so) since that fateful night in The Spurned Wench. Since then a party has formed, consisting of Virivoldht (Alchemist Extraordinaire), Elladan (Shadow Warrior, also known as the Spurned Wench), Boris (Kislevite Kossar, and general all round bad-ass but good guy), Casey (Rogue Nuln Greatsword/Mercenary), Lorenzo (Initiate and Crusade Survivor), Orrik (now a Shamanslayer, or an Abominationslayer), Frank (Ogre mercenary) and Tim (Halfling Chef).
It had began in a seedy tavern called The Spurned Wench. A merchant had walked in and asked Casey (a runaway greatsword from nuln) if he could obtain some work, as the merchant (Virivoldht, i.e. myself) had received a good tip he could find sellswords in this tavern. Casey offered a hard bargain, so Virivoldht had stood up and announced he would pay 5 crowns a day to anyone who would join his caravan, and who passed his already high standards. This caused an uproar, and Virivoldht led them to a rather wide section of the trail to Middenheim.
Among the throng was the entirety of our cast. Immediately Virivoldht hired Frank (the Ogre Mercenary) as he would be very useful. He then announced to the throng of around 40 people he was going to Marienburg, through the Drakwald. Instantly the crowd halfed in size. Then he announced that to gain entry you would need to best the ogre in a no-blood match, whoever ended up on the ground first loses. Some more people left from the crowd.
However, a silent warrior stepped forward, ignoring the ridicule of the crowd ("look lads, it's the spurned wench 'erself!") Elladan (Shadow Warrior) stepped forward. From his cloak he pulled out some scraps and lobbed them behind the ogre, who tried to turn around too quickly and lost his footing. Without saying a word he stepped onto the Wagon.
Then, without warning a (very drunk) slayer (Orrik) charged the ogre, axes glistening. Things descended into chaos, with what amounted to a Greatsword fencing with a Slayer, and a Kossar fighting an ogre while being punched in the crotch by a halfling. Virivoldht shouted to stop the madness, and hired them all.
Thus the party was forged.
Along the trail Virivoldht introduced himself as an Alchemist, using concoctions and elixirs to allow them to travel at a pace unheard of, without sleep for days, only needing about 20 hours of sleep in a week. During this journey the history and profession of all the characters was revealed somewhat.
Virivoldht, an alchemist and merchant who travels the Empire selling cargos of rare substances, as well as refining his art, as well as making a fine price for being an Alchemist.
Boris, a Kossar of noble blood from far Kislev, who had been sent by his family to negotiate and investigate the state of the Empire currently, catch up on old alliances and generally probe and inquire.
Elladan, a silent brooding High Elf from further Ulthuan. He stayed quiet but he has a resounding hatred of shades, above all other Druchii. He refuses to state why (for those too curious, his family was murdered by them, but the PCs don't know this yet).
Casey, an Empire Greatsword from Nuln. He joined the Imperial Gunnery school but, as a slummer didn't have the finances to continue, so he joined the city guard. After some years passed he was inducted to the Greatsword regiment, but he realised this wasn't the life for him after being offered the position of Count's bodyguard. He stole a pistol, some funds and ran.
Lorenzo, an Initiate from Tilea, his village was invaded by the Arabs. However, as he and his comrades held out to a man, the Knights Panther relieved the onslaught. He went with them on a crusade through Araby. A devout sigmarite, he has returned to the Empire to spread the word of Sigmar.
Orrik, a Slayer. It is unknown why he took the oath, but he has revealed in his past life he was a Runelord from Karak Azul. Why he is now a Slayer is unknown, but it must have been a might fall from grace to end up at the Spurned Wench.
Frank, an Ogre from the Mountains to the east. He isn't an overly social creature, concerned only with his food and pay (which he uses to buy food). He's treated more as a brute and beast of burden by the party, and his past is currently unknown.
Tim, a Halfling Chef. Small and proficient with a Sling Tim comes from a large (not physically) family from the Moot. He is just looking to explore the bigger world out there and get paid well for it. He's also got an interest in what Virivoldht does for a living, and chose to accompany the strange man in the dark cloak.
So, the party had a long trek from Middenhiem to Marienburg, and along the way (the trek took three months or so) the Caravan was ambushed by a party of Beastmen. But it was no normal encounter, however, as there were only eight of them, led by a Shaman. And they were bright blue. Fortunately, thanks to Elladan's scouting they knew the followers of Chaos were coming, and had time to set up traps, involving gunpowder and alchemical fire. When the beasts did attack, they were met with bow, alchemical bombs, (explosive and corrosive) sword and axe. Interestingly, Orrik had charged straight at the shaman, daubed in tattoos he had inscribed just before the battle, of a luminescent blue liquid he had taken from Virivoldht. The Shaman had directed blue lightning at Orrik, but it had just been absorbed by the dwarf's runic wards.
Then the Slayer got his turn. It wasn't pretty. The shaman was piled to the ground and hacked apart by the dwarf.
The attackers vanquished, the trailed the beastman horns behind the wagon to deter attackers. It worked, and they arrived in Marienburg safely and unharassed.
Once in Marienburg, Virivoldht paid for their (particularly fancy) lodgings, and set about delivering his cargo. It was to a Dwarf workshop, and he was delivering Azulian blackpowder. Unfortunately, a small amount (half an ounce) had been used in the fight with the Beastmen, and the Dwarfs (being Dwarfs) refused to honour the trade, as it wasn't what they had agreed. So Virivoldht and his party scoured Marienburg, unable to find Azulian gunpowder. Elladan had found some Elven merchants who could obtain some, but it would be a number of weeks. So, they had to resort to bending the rules. Orrik was from Karak Azul.
So, they got Boris to challenge him to a drinking game. Honestly, Boris drew him. It was so fucking epic. Anyway, back into quick narration mode. The slayer was so inebriated however he let slip the minerals used in the making of Azulian gunpowder to Virivoldht (they were shotting 68% vodka, Viri's own brew). Virivoldht managed to craft some within the next few days, and the party moved on, all the mercenaries 450 crowns richer for their efforts.
The party then went to a town on the other side of the Reik from Marienburg, just outside the Drakwald called Ertropkh (er-tropiCK). Virivoldht wanted to deal with a herbalist in the village, and said the party would be staying here for a few days before they headed to Altdorf, as planned. However, something was obviously amiss in the town. Strange horribly mutated corpses were turning up all over the village and disappearing as soon as you took your eyes off of them. After a bit of investigating, the party managed to find a body, and went to investigate the history of the town, leaving Orrik guarding the horribly mutated corpse.
The corpses were like humans, but had huge red eyes, as well as similarly out of proportion fangs in their mouth. They also usually had more than 4 limbs and were very muscly, sporting appendages like flailing masses of tendons and muscle, but no bone (similar to tentacles), actual tentacles, claws, bovine heads growing out of their sides (with fangs) and such.
On investigation it turned out a generation or two ago a Hedge wizard had lived in the village, before falling to the powers of chaos. Elladan had investigated this on his own while the rest of the party had been investigating the bodies with the rest of the town. Elladan discovered that he had lived in a now abandoned house, and the house was in a street now mostly abandoned.
During the manhunt through the town (which is where they found the body Orrik was guarding) Tim had spotted some hooded men gathering in an abandoned house, but as he entered they had scattered and he hadn't been able to pin them down.
Back at the abandoned Sorcerer's house, Elladan investigated the hovel. Everything seemed normal, but on further investigation he brushed aside the straw mattress and saw, marked into the floor, an eight pointed star of chaos. Under another one was a Symbol of the Changer.
Gathering the party they returned to Orrik, to find him staggering and bloody, the beaten corpse of one of the mutants at his feet. It was obviously a different one, and he stated the one he had been guarding had disappeared while he fought this one.
Over the course of the next two days several events ocurred, and because I was dealing with multiple split up search parties, doing it chronologically could be a challenge. But the jist of it was:
The party split up, leaving some to guard the current corpse, while Frank, Viri, Boris and Lorenzo went to investigate the chaos-hovel. As they arrived Boris and Lorenzo heard a noise, like feet hurrying away, and boldly charged into the house. As they did so a Mutant came out of the shadows and attacked them. A fight ensued, and Lorenzo was badly beaten, but Boris saved the party by heroically decapitating their would-be executioner.
Leaving Lorenzo to consecrate the area, with Frank to guard him they returned to the others, who were guarding the first body, checking nothing had gone awry. Then Virivoldht, Orrik, Boris and Casey had returned to the local Tavern, to get some sleep. As Orrik, Boris and Casey had settled down to the bar, Viri had gone upstairs to check their rooms and organise his affairs. Opening the door to his and Casey's room he immediately saw there were three of the hideous white skinned, red eyed mutants in there, and ran downstairs, shouting for everybody to run. General uproar commenced as the mutants started down the stairs, Orrik running to meet them head on. However, he was dealt a blow to the head, and Casey dragged him to the party guarding the body in the streets (Elladan and Tim). They saw no sign of pursuit.
Something was obviously amiss here, so they had Frank drag the body into an outhouse, and Tim guard it. They reasoned if the bodies are disappearing then they'll know if they're simply vanishing or re-animating this way. So they left Tim to stand guard.
Returning to Lorenzo, who looked terrible, but was busy in deep meditation, they began to investigate the suspicious human activity in the village. Following various leads they happened upon a cult dedicated to the changer. Interrogating and killing their way through most of them, they managed to glean that the cult was waiting for "The Changers" to come to their town and free them all from their eternal hell. They took the mutants as a gift from The Changer and a good omen that their plan was coming to fruition. Orrik pieced together that "The Changers" were the Tzeentch-following Beastmen that they had killed on the way here. However, as they were interrogating the cultists more of the horrible mutants arrived, and the party had to flee, as the mutants were getting stronger. A random flailing tentacle injured a few party members and killed all three of the remaining cultists.
They returned to the tavern and found Tim sitting sipping a pint. It turned out the body had just disappeared from the outhouse, and that Tim had seen no sense watching an empty outhouse. While trying to piece together how the mutants were getting about and disappearing. Tim had a brainwave however, bringing up that there was a reservoir which led to Marienburg on this side of the Riek, and the waterworks for it must pass straight under this town. Further investigation revealed that prints they had been following earlier (smaller ones inside larger boots, they had thought no more of it at the time) disappeared down a grate.
The party gathered their strength and went down into the reservoir. They climbed down, using alchemical light to see. They got to the reservoir, but so far had found nothing amiss. Orrik (who had the best sense of direction underground) pointed out he had seen a staircase leading downward, and that if he knew cultss, he knew they liked to hide themselves as far and deep from society as possible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was darker and colder this deep down in the reservoir. As the party traversed the tunnels, they could feel the great weight of all the earth above pressing down on them. No, they shouldn't be here, it was dangerous. The constant dripping of water gave a certain rhythm to the footsteps of the group, but after a while even that stopped.
Elladan took point. Looking forward with his keen vision, he could see, in the distance, a pair of glimmering red eyes. Surely not? How had they found them down here? However, thinking logically, this must be near their base of operations. Pushing forward he decided not to alarm the party, although he could sense the Dwarf stiffen as he saw them as well, and heard the noise of his axes being loosed.
Moving towards the eyes, they got nearer and nearer. Until, as they were about ten feet away, Elladan realised they belonged to a rat. Breathing out a great sigh of relief, he lowered his bow. Then something happened. All around them, he could hear movement. Hundreds of pairs of red eyes appeared out of the dark, in front, to the sides and behind the party, gazing down at them the way a predator regards it's prey.
They were surrounded by the chittering of rats.
Read more!
It also allows me to share the story so far with you guys. It wont be in much detail, but this was easily around 7 hours of roleplay, so excuse the brevity.
Ok folks, it's been a long time (a week or so) since that fateful night in The Spurned Wench. Since then a party has formed, consisting of Virivoldht (Alchemist Extraordinaire), Elladan (Shadow Warrior, also known as the Spurned Wench), Boris (Kislevite Kossar, and general all round bad-ass but good guy), Casey (Rogue Nuln Greatsword/Mercenary), Lorenzo (Initiate and Crusade Survivor), Orrik (now a Shamanslayer, or an Abominationslayer), Frank (Ogre mercenary) and Tim (Halfling Chef).
It had began in a seedy tavern called The Spurned Wench. A merchant had walked in and asked Casey (a runaway greatsword from nuln) if he could obtain some work, as the merchant (Virivoldht, i.e. myself) had received a good tip he could find sellswords in this tavern. Casey offered a hard bargain, so Virivoldht had stood up and announced he would pay 5 crowns a day to anyone who would join his caravan, and who passed his already high standards. This caused an uproar, and Virivoldht led them to a rather wide section of the trail to Middenheim.
Among the throng was the entirety of our cast. Immediately Virivoldht hired Frank (the Ogre Mercenary) as he would be very useful. He then announced to the throng of around 40 people he was going to Marienburg, through the Drakwald. Instantly the crowd halfed in size. Then he announced that to gain entry you would need to best the ogre in a no-blood match, whoever ended up on the ground first loses. Some more people left from the crowd.
However, a silent warrior stepped forward, ignoring the ridicule of the crowd ("look lads, it's the spurned wench 'erself!") Elladan (Shadow Warrior) stepped forward. From his cloak he pulled out some scraps and lobbed them behind the ogre, who tried to turn around too quickly and lost his footing. Without saying a word he stepped onto the Wagon.
Then, without warning a (very drunk) slayer (Orrik) charged the ogre, axes glistening. Things descended into chaos, with what amounted to a Greatsword fencing with a Slayer, and a Kossar fighting an ogre while being punched in the crotch by a halfling. Virivoldht shouted to stop the madness, and hired them all.
Thus the party was forged.
Along the trail Virivoldht introduced himself as an Alchemist, using concoctions and elixirs to allow them to travel at a pace unheard of, without sleep for days, only needing about 20 hours of sleep in a week. During this journey the history and profession of all the characters was revealed somewhat.
Virivoldht, an alchemist and merchant who travels the Empire selling cargos of rare substances, as well as refining his art, as well as making a fine price for being an Alchemist.
Boris, a Kossar of noble blood from far Kislev, who had been sent by his family to negotiate and investigate the state of the Empire currently, catch up on old alliances and generally probe and inquire.
Elladan, a silent brooding High Elf from further Ulthuan. He stayed quiet but he has a resounding hatred of shades, above all other Druchii. He refuses to state why (for those too curious, his family was murdered by them, but the PCs don't know this yet).
Casey, an Empire Greatsword from Nuln. He joined the Imperial Gunnery school but, as a slummer didn't have the finances to continue, so he joined the city guard. After some years passed he was inducted to the Greatsword regiment, but he realised this wasn't the life for him after being offered the position of Count's bodyguard. He stole a pistol, some funds and ran.
Lorenzo, an Initiate from Tilea, his village was invaded by the Arabs. However, as he and his comrades held out to a man, the Knights Panther relieved the onslaught. He went with them on a crusade through Araby. A devout sigmarite, he has returned to the Empire to spread the word of Sigmar.
Orrik, a Slayer. It is unknown why he took the oath, but he has revealed in his past life he was a Runelord from Karak Azul. Why he is now a Slayer is unknown, but it must have been a might fall from grace to end up at the Spurned Wench.
Frank, an Ogre from the Mountains to the east. He isn't an overly social creature, concerned only with his food and pay (which he uses to buy food). He's treated more as a brute and beast of burden by the party, and his past is currently unknown.
Tim, a Halfling Chef. Small and proficient with a Sling Tim comes from a large (not physically) family from the Moot. He is just looking to explore the bigger world out there and get paid well for it. He's also got an interest in what Virivoldht does for a living, and chose to accompany the strange man in the dark cloak.
So, the party had a long trek from Middenhiem to Marienburg, and along the way (the trek took three months or so) the Caravan was ambushed by a party of Beastmen. But it was no normal encounter, however, as there were only eight of them, led by a Shaman. And they were bright blue. Fortunately, thanks to Elladan's scouting they knew the followers of Chaos were coming, and had time to set up traps, involving gunpowder and alchemical fire. When the beasts did attack, they were met with bow, alchemical bombs, (explosive and corrosive) sword and axe. Interestingly, Orrik had charged straight at the shaman, daubed in tattoos he had inscribed just before the battle, of a luminescent blue liquid he had taken from Virivoldht. The Shaman had directed blue lightning at Orrik, but it had just been absorbed by the dwarf's runic wards.
Then the Slayer got his turn. It wasn't pretty. The shaman was piled to the ground and hacked apart by the dwarf.
The attackers vanquished, the trailed the beastman horns behind the wagon to deter attackers. It worked, and they arrived in Marienburg safely and unharassed.
Once in Marienburg, Virivoldht paid for their (particularly fancy) lodgings, and set about delivering his cargo. It was to a Dwarf workshop, and he was delivering Azulian blackpowder. Unfortunately, a small amount (half an ounce) had been used in the fight with the Beastmen, and the Dwarfs (being Dwarfs) refused to honour the trade, as it wasn't what they had agreed. So Virivoldht and his party scoured Marienburg, unable to find Azulian gunpowder. Elladan had found some Elven merchants who could obtain some, but it would be a number of weeks. So, they had to resort to bending the rules. Orrik was from Karak Azul.
So, they got Boris to challenge him to a drinking game. Honestly, Boris drew him. It was so fucking epic. Anyway, back into quick narration mode. The slayer was so inebriated however he let slip the minerals used in the making of Azulian gunpowder to Virivoldht (they were shotting 68% vodka, Viri's own brew). Virivoldht managed to craft some within the next few days, and the party moved on, all the mercenaries 450 crowns richer for their efforts.
The party then went to a town on the other side of the Reik from Marienburg, just outside the Drakwald called Ertropkh (er-tropiCK). Virivoldht wanted to deal with a herbalist in the village, and said the party would be staying here for a few days before they headed to Altdorf, as planned. However, something was obviously amiss in the town. Strange horribly mutated corpses were turning up all over the village and disappearing as soon as you took your eyes off of them. After a bit of investigating, the party managed to find a body, and went to investigate the history of the town, leaving Orrik guarding the horribly mutated corpse.
The corpses were like humans, but had huge red eyes, as well as similarly out of proportion fangs in their mouth. They also usually had more than 4 limbs and were very muscly, sporting appendages like flailing masses of tendons and muscle, but no bone (similar to tentacles), actual tentacles, claws, bovine heads growing out of their sides (with fangs) and such.
On investigation it turned out a generation or two ago a Hedge wizard had lived in the village, before falling to the powers of chaos. Elladan had investigated this on his own while the rest of the party had been investigating the bodies with the rest of the town. Elladan discovered that he had lived in a now abandoned house, and the house was in a street now mostly abandoned.
During the manhunt through the town (which is where they found the body Orrik was guarding) Tim had spotted some hooded men gathering in an abandoned house, but as he entered they had scattered and he hadn't been able to pin them down.
Back at the abandoned Sorcerer's house, Elladan investigated the hovel. Everything seemed normal, but on further investigation he brushed aside the straw mattress and saw, marked into the floor, an eight pointed star of chaos. Under another one was a Symbol of the Changer.
Gathering the party they returned to Orrik, to find him staggering and bloody, the beaten corpse of one of the mutants at his feet. It was obviously a different one, and he stated the one he had been guarding had disappeared while he fought this one.
Over the course of the next two days several events ocurred, and because I was dealing with multiple split up search parties, doing it chronologically could be a challenge. But the jist of it was:
The party split up, leaving some to guard the current corpse, while Frank, Viri, Boris and Lorenzo went to investigate the chaos-hovel. As they arrived Boris and Lorenzo heard a noise, like feet hurrying away, and boldly charged into the house. As they did so a Mutant came out of the shadows and attacked them. A fight ensued, and Lorenzo was badly beaten, but Boris saved the party by heroically decapitating their would-be executioner.
Leaving Lorenzo to consecrate the area, with Frank to guard him they returned to the others, who were guarding the first body, checking nothing had gone awry. Then Virivoldht, Orrik, Boris and Casey had returned to the local Tavern, to get some sleep. As Orrik, Boris and Casey had settled down to the bar, Viri had gone upstairs to check their rooms and organise his affairs. Opening the door to his and Casey's room he immediately saw there were three of the hideous white skinned, red eyed mutants in there, and ran downstairs, shouting for everybody to run. General uproar commenced as the mutants started down the stairs, Orrik running to meet them head on. However, he was dealt a blow to the head, and Casey dragged him to the party guarding the body in the streets (Elladan and Tim). They saw no sign of pursuit.
Something was obviously amiss here, so they had Frank drag the body into an outhouse, and Tim guard it. They reasoned if the bodies are disappearing then they'll know if they're simply vanishing or re-animating this way. So they left Tim to stand guard.
Returning to Lorenzo, who looked terrible, but was busy in deep meditation, they began to investigate the suspicious human activity in the village. Following various leads they happened upon a cult dedicated to the changer. Interrogating and killing their way through most of them, they managed to glean that the cult was waiting for "The Changers" to come to their town and free them all from their eternal hell. They took the mutants as a gift from The Changer and a good omen that their plan was coming to fruition. Orrik pieced together that "The Changers" were the Tzeentch-following Beastmen that they had killed on the way here. However, as they were interrogating the cultists more of the horrible mutants arrived, and the party had to flee, as the mutants were getting stronger. A random flailing tentacle injured a few party members and killed all three of the remaining cultists.
They returned to the tavern and found Tim sitting sipping a pint. It turned out the body had just disappeared from the outhouse, and that Tim had seen no sense watching an empty outhouse. While trying to piece together how the mutants were getting about and disappearing. Tim had a brainwave however, bringing up that there was a reservoir which led to Marienburg on this side of the Riek, and the waterworks for it must pass straight under this town. Further investigation revealed that prints they had been following earlier (smaller ones inside larger boots, they had thought no more of it at the time) disappeared down a grate.
The party gathered their strength and went down into the reservoir. They climbed down, using alchemical light to see. They got to the reservoir, but so far had found nothing amiss. Orrik (who had the best sense of direction underground) pointed out he had seen a staircase leading downward, and that if he knew cultss, he knew they liked to hide themselves as far and deep from society as possible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was darker and colder this deep down in the reservoir. As the party traversed the tunnels, they could feel the great weight of all the earth above pressing down on them. No, they shouldn't be here, it was dangerous. The constant dripping of water gave a certain rhythm to the footsteps of the group, but after a while even that stopped.
Elladan took point. Looking forward with his keen vision, he could see, in the distance, a pair of glimmering red eyes. Surely not? How had they found them down here? However, thinking logically, this must be near their base of operations. Pushing forward he decided not to alarm the party, although he could sense the Dwarf stiffen as he saw them as well, and heard the noise of his axes being loosed.
Moving towards the eyes, they got nearer and nearer. Until, as they were about ten feet away, Elladan realised they belonged to a rat. Breathing out a great sigh of relief, he lowered his bow. Then something happened. All around them, he could hear movement. Hundreds of pairs of red eyes appeared out of the dark, in front, to the sides and behind the party, gazing down at them the way a predator regards it's prey.
They were surrounded by the chittering of rats.
Read more!
Thursday 25 November 2010
2000 Balanced Skaven, I might have found a way out my rut.
Frankly, it's half five in the morning, but I think (after much tinkering) I might have found the way out of the rut my Skaven are stuck in. It seems simple, but lets have a look.
As it's 5:29 at time of writing, I will put very basic descriptions of everything in the list.
Lord
Grey Seer
Screaming Bell
Power Scroll
Ironcurse Icon
480
He's expensive, but he's good for what he does, and that is reliably cast magic and give me a nice big bubble to do it from. Sure the power scroll is risky but it's usually not that detrimental to the wizard. If it ends up being a problem I will definitely give him the reroll miscasts item. But anyway, he's immune to most forms of spell assassination, and while cannons and the like will probably do a number on him, that's why the Storm Banner is there.
Heroes
Chieftan
Battle Standard Bearer
Storm Banner
Shield
122
BSB with the Storm Banner. I had no points to give him anything more.
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Standard rocket caddy.
Core
34 Clanrats
Shields
Full Command
Warpfire Thrower
243
Bell unit, not that big, but it can still fight (somewhat) in combat, and it can also bring along a WFT.
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
With this many slaves I want to be shooting into combat.
40 Slaves
Musician
82
40 Slaves
Musician
82
40 Slaves
Musician
82
40 Slaves
Musician
82
The anvils of the list. Not as big as I would like, but they're definitely manageable.
Rare
Doomwheel
150
Doomwheel
150
Monster Hunters. While i'm not a fan, this list does struggle with big things.
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
General all purpose death. Can shoot into combat with the slaves which is nice.
Only thing I'd really feel I'd want are gutter runners, because my seer is afraid of cannons and the like (if he dies to one, the army drops to LD5). I'd love this army at 2500 as I'd have my gutter runners.
What do you think?
Read more!
As it's 5:29 at time of writing, I will put very basic descriptions of everything in the list.
Lord
Grey Seer
Screaming Bell
Power Scroll
Ironcurse Icon
480
He's expensive, but he's good for what he does, and that is reliably cast magic and give me a nice big bubble to do it from. Sure the power scroll is risky but it's usually not that detrimental to the wizard. If it ends up being a problem I will definitely give him the reroll miscasts item. But anyway, he's immune to most forms of spell assassination, and while cannons and the like will probably do a number on him, that's why the Storm Banner is there.
Heroes
Chieftan
Battle Standard Bearer
Storm Banner
Shield
122
BSB with the Storm Banner. I had no points to give him anything more.
Warlock Engineer
Doomrocket
45
Standard rocket caddy.
Core
34 Clanrats
Shields
Full Command
Warpfire Thrower
243
Bell unit, not that big, but it can still fight (somewhat) in combat, and it can also bring along a WFT.
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
10 Stormvermin
Standard
Warpfire Thrower
150
With this many slaves I want to be shooting into combat.
40 Slaves
Musician
82
40 Slaves
Musician
82
40 Slaves
Musician
82
40 Slaves
Musician
82
The anvils of the list. Not as big as I would like, but they're definitely manageable.
Rare
Doomwheel
150
Doomwheel
150
Monster Hunters. While i'm not a fan, this list does struggle with big things.
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
Warp Lightning Cannon
90
General all purpose death. Can shoot into combat with the slaves which is nice.
Only thing I'd really feel I'd want are gutter runners, because my seer is afraid of cannons and the like (if he dies to one, the army drops to LD5). I'd love this army at 2500 as I'd have my gutter runners.
What do you think?
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Dark Elf Warhost MKII
So I heard you liked Crossbows. Seriously, you better like crossbows.
Ok this list is a different version of my old one. I dropped the level 4, and took a cheap ass hero. Basically this list plays the nothing is that important game. It's very shooty, very mobile. It's not that vulnerable to magic considering everything here is cheap as shit, and most of it you shouldn't really be caring about. This list is borderline impossible to pin down. Everything in here is LD9 and can move in whatever direction it wants. An army of fast cav, skirmishers and flyers. What fun!
Ok, so here's the list:
Hero
Master
Light Armour
Shield
Lifetaker
Dark Steed
126
Core
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Standard
124
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Standard
124
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
110
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
110
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
110
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
110
19 Dark Elf Crossbowmen
Standard
200
5 Harpies
55
5 Harpies
55
5 Harpies
55
Special
10 Shades
160
10 Shades
160
10 Shades
160
Rare
War Hydra
175
War Hydra
175
Now while I realise this brings less crossbows than my previous list, it does bring more mobility, and harpies. It also brings more BS5 crossbows, and like I say the entire list can move quite happily. And there's a pair of hydras.
This is a list I'd like to have a go with, it sounds fun to me. ^^
Read more!
Ok this list is a different version of my old one. I dropped the level 4, and took a cheap ass hero. Basically this list plays the nothing is that important game. It's very shooty, very mobile. It's not that vulnerable to magic considering everything here is cheap as shit, and most of it you shouldn't really be caring about. This list is borderline impossible to pin down. Everything in here is LD9 and can move in whatever direction it wants. An army of fast cav, skirmishers and flyers. What fun!
Ok, so here's the list:
Hero
Master
Light Armour
Shield
Lifetaker
Dark Steed
126
Core
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Standard
124
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
Standard
124
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
110
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
110
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
110
5 Dark Riders
Repeater Crossbows
110
19 Dark Elf Crossbowmen
Standard
200
5 Harpies
55
5 Harpies
55
5 Harpies
55
Special
10 Shades
160
10 Shades
160
10 Shades
160
Rare
War Hydra
175
War Hydra
175
Now while I realise this brings less crossbows than my previous list, it does bring more mobility, and harpies. It also brings more BS5 crossbows, and like I say the entire list can move quite happily. And there's a pair of hydras.
This is a list I'd like to have a go with, it sounds fun to me. ^^
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Teclis - By The Lieutenant
Ok folks, guest article by The Lieutenant, on a subject very close to my heart (Teclis). He's awfully fun to use and such, but he sits next to hydras in my own personal hell. The score-outs and the bracket commentary is mine (you can tell because it sounds like a conversation).
See this is the problem about The Lieutenant's stuff appearing on my blog, my opinion invariably seeps through...
Teclis is a wanker. I just want to make this very clear, before we start any high notioned shenanigans or comments about him saving the Old World. He did, okay? And yes, it is impressive that him and another 2 High Elves managed to turn back a tide of Chaos that all the Empire, Bretonnia and the Dwarfs couldn’t. But, still: Teclis is undoubtedly a wanker. He is one of the most annoying wizards to play against. Why? Because you touch yourself at night.
Actually, that’s a lie, but let’s look at the reasons exactly why Teclis is in fact, a wanker.
1. 475pts. You can fit him into a 2000pt army, which is the standard game around here. You have no idea how relevant this is. The Dwarf Runelord special character on the Anvil of Doom is 505pts. This angers me. But, we’re discussing the exact reasons for Teclis being a wanker. Lets continue.
2. He gets D3 free power and dispel dice every turn. Yep. Every turn. Plus cause he’s a HE Mage, he gets an additional +1 to dispel, meaning +5 and there’s a decent chance you’re gonna have equal dispel dice to your opponent's power dice. Not great, but not a bad chance. The power dice(If you’re taking him, ALWAYS take the Banner of Sorcery so your army gets 2D6+2D3 dice a turn. Plus channelling) are nice, meaning with the banner as well, he goes from getting an average of 7 (Archnomad says: 9, as he gets 7+D3) PD a turn to an average of 11. This guy with Lore of Death is not fun. Getting average(AVERAGE, mark you. He can get up to 19 with some spectacular rolling) 11 PD plus getting them back on a 5+ with Purple Sun…Yeah. I saw that happen to a 66 strong unit of Saurus. Needless to say, Teclis was immediately back at 12 dice. He is one of the few wizards who can happily run out of spells before dice. And he will know 7.
3. His Scroll of Hoeth. Admittedly, this is roughly the same as the 40pt magic item Sigil of Asuryan, but hey, Teclis has it. And Teclis is a wanker. This is basically a dispel scroll, but after that, both you and your opponent roll a dice. If you roll higher, the wizard who cast the spell forgets it for the rest of the game. Lovely to use against big hitters like Purple Sun (Archnomad says: Cause if you're playing Teclis, and therefore high elves, an init test is the greatest of your worries, not soulblight), but remember, they are most likely going to be Irresistible if they are cast. Best thing to use this thing on is actually stuff like Throne of Vines. If you take that out, it cuts Lore of Life right back like a judiciously applied machete. And it generally takes away the other wizard’s (I’m thinking Slann here) protection against miscasts, making him wary of using more than maybe 4 dice to a spell. No one likes to see their 350pt wizard roll a miscast and die because someone took away their ability to cast Throne of Vines. Hence: Teclis=Wanker.
4. Not such a huge thing this, but he is still a HE. He gets I5 and ASF, plus his sword is one of the best weapons in the game. Always wounds on a 2+ no save. Yeah, he only gets one attack, but hey, if the worst comes to the worst and he is in combat, he has a surprising sting for any would-be assassins.
5. This is the main reason why he is a wanker. Are you ready? He auto-irresistibles any spell on ANY double. That means if he rolls 2 dice, gets a double 2, he irresistibly casts Purple Sun of Xereus on a 25. Aye, that much of a cock end. This is the single most annoying thing about Teclis. He is impossible to stop. Also, he doesn’t roll on the Miscast table unless it’s a double six. And, you want to know the really fun part? He ignores the first miscast he suffers every turn. If he has Life, Throne of Vines, he basically doesn’t miscast. Ever. If he doesn’t have Life, he still basically doesn’t miscast. Ever. This CAN have a downside though, If you cast any spell which isn’t Irresistible, then your opponent will probably just dispel it, cause he knows that any spell you really want to cast is going to be irresistible. I’m no maths student, but Clayman pointed out that on 6 dice, Teclis has something like a 97% chance of getting an irresistible. Generally, use 4 (Archno says: 5 if you want it irresistable and it's important, 72% chance of a double on 4D6, 90.7% chance on 5D6) dice on each spell. 6 dice is kind of pointless, cause you have such a high chance of getting a double on 4 or 5 dice. Save the extra dice, use them for more spells.
There are a couple of reasons he’s not awanker samaritan. I’ll explain,
1. He is T2, 3 wounds, no save. For 475pts, that is fragile. Keep him the hell away from combat. Or shooting. Or magic. Or, like, a strong breeze (Archno says: Or warp lightning cannons. Hur hur hur!). Or some kittens. Or, you know, a goblin. Or the general concept ofdeath wanker's cramp. For the love of Asuryan, don’t let him catch the cold. The guy is fragile. He’s the ultimate expression of the HE military prowess. He hits like a tonne of rectangular building things. (Actually, scratch that, several tonnes. With some knives in it. And a nuke.) but he is so damned fragile I’m scared to even touch the model in case he loses a wound (Archno says: But he's not cause he's a wanker). Spells like Flesh to Stone can help here, but ultimately, he is fragile. I know I said that word a lot in the previous paragraph, but you really need to get it sunk in to your heads.
2. Err….he’s 475pts…and really easy to kill once you get to his unit?
3. That’s it.
4. Yep, really, he only really has the one minus point, and it’s that he is fragile. Weak. A pussy. He’s about as hard as Elijah Wood (Archno: All the wanking gave him a constant boner, but let's not poke fun at Frodo and Sam, homosexual consensual sex can be a beautiful beautiful thing).
5. Err…He saved the Old World? And the actual world. It’s in Giantslayer. Check out that series, by the way, it’s awesome (Archno: Yeah but then you have to compare Gotrek to Teclis, and you just know Gotrek would have Teclis, as Gotrek is wearing roughly the mass of Cathay in Plot Armour).
So, I hope from this article, you’ve seen why precisely Teclis is a wanker. Course, I still use him. Why? Because I’mokay with it a massive dickhead with a power fantasy friend of Archnomad's who loves a competitive game. He’s awesome a wanker. I realised he was the same cost as the two mages I was using before, started using him (because I told you to, how I regret that) instead, and he’s approximately 37 times more effective. Welcome to GW’s world of special characters (Archno: Tretch Craventail, Gor'rok and Shadowblade say hey baby hey baby hey).
Enjoy using Teclis. Or not using Teclis. It’s up to you. Don’t blame me if you start using him, and your friends begin to slag you off mercilessly. Course, don’t blame me if you do start using him, and win. A lot. Wank wank wank wank wank. That’s not called blame, its called acclaim wanking. ;)
Night folks. I’m off to attend to the essay which I’m ignoring to write this.
Stay safe!
The Lieutenant
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See this is the problem about The Lieutenant's stuff appearing on my blog, my opinion invariably seeps through...
Teclis is a wanker. I just want to make this very clear, before we start any high notioned shenanigans or comments about him saving the Old World. He did, okay? And yes, it is impressive that him and another 2 High Elves managed to turn back a tide of Chaos that all the Empire, Bretonnia and the Dwarfs couldn’t. But, still: Teclis is undoubtedly a wanker. He is one of the most annoying wizards to play against. Why? Because you touch yourself at night.
Actually, that’s a lie, but let’s look at the reasons exactly why Teclis is in fact, a wanker.
1. 475pts. You can fit him into a 2000pt army, which is the standard game around here. You have no idea how relevant this is. The Dwarf Runelord special character on the Anvil of Doom is 505pts. This angers me. But, we’re discussing the exact reasons for Teclis being a wanker. Lets continue.
2. He gets D3 free power and dispel dice every turn. Yep. Every turn. Plus cause he’s a HE Mage, he gets an additional +1 to dispel, meaning +5 and there’s a decent chance you’re gonna have equal dispel dice to your opponent's power dice. Not great, but not a bad chance. The power dice(If you’re taking him, ALWAYS take the Banner of Sorcery so your army gets 2D6+2D3 dice a turn. Plus channelling) are nice, meaning with the banner as well, he goes from getting an average of 7 (Archnomad says: 9, as he gets 7+D3) PD a turn to an average of 11. This guy with Lore of Death is not fun. Getting average(AVERAGE, mark you. He can get up to 19 with some spectacular rolling) 11 PD plus getting them back on a 5+ with Purple Sun…Yeah. I saw that happen to a 66 strong unit of Saurus. Needless to say, Teclis was immediately back at 12 dice. He is one of the few wizards who can happily run out of spells before dice. And he will know 7.
3. His Scroll of Hoeth. Admittedly, this is roughly the same as the 40pt magic item Sigil of Asuryan, but hey, Teclis has it. And Teclis is a wanker. This is basically a dispel scroll, but after that, both you and your opponent roll a dice. If you roll higher, the wizard who cast the spell forgets it for the rest of the game. Lovely to use against big hitters like Purple Sun (Archnomad says: Cause if you're playing Teclis, and therefore high elves, an init test is the greatest of your worries, not soulblight), but remember, they are most likely going to be Irresistible if they are cast. Best thing to use this thing on is actually stuff like Throne of Vines. If you take that out, it cuts Lore of Life right back like a judiciously applied machete. And it generally takes away the other wizard’s (I’m thinking Slann here) protection against miscasts, making him wary of using more than maybe 4 dice to a spell. No one likes to see their 350pt wizard roll a miscast and die because someone took away their ability to cast Throne of Vines. Hence: Teclis=Wanker.
4. Not such a huge thing this, but he is still a HE. He gets I5 and ASF, plus his sword is one of the best weapons in the game. Always wounds on a 2+ no save. Yeah, he only gets one attack, but hey, if the worst comes to the worst and he is in combat, he has a surprising sting for any would-be assassins.
5. This is the main reason why he is a wanker. Are you ready? He auto-irresistibles any spell on ANY double. That means if he rolls 2 dice, gets a double 2, he irresistibly casts Purple Sun of Xereus on a 25. Aye, that much of a cock end. This is the single most annoying thing about Teclis. He is impossible to stop. Also, he doesn’t roll on the Miscast table unless it’s a double six. And, you want to know the really fun part? He ignores the first miscast he suffers every turn. If he has Life, Throne of Vines, he basically doesn’t miscast. Ever. If he doesn’t have Life, he still basically doesn’t miscast. Ever. This CAN have a downside though, If you cast any spell which isn’t Irresistible, then your opponent will probably just dispel it, cause he knows that any spell you really want to cast is going to be irresistible. I’m no maths student, but Clayman pointed out that on 6 dice, Teclis has something like a 97% chance of getting an irresistible. Generally, use 4 (Archno says: 5 if you want it irresistable and it's important, 72% chance of a double on 4D6, 90.7% chance on 5D6) dice on each spell. 6 dice is kind of pointless, cause you have such a high chance of getting a double on 4 or 5 dice. Save the extra dice, use them for more spells.
There are a couple of reasons he’s not a
1. He is T2, 3 wounds, no save. For 475pts, that is fragile. Keep him the hell away from combat. Or shooting. Or magic. Or, like, a strong breeze (Archno says: Or warp lightning cannons. Hur hur hur!). Or some kittens. Or, you know, a goblin. Or the general concept of
2. Err….he’s 475pts…and really easy to kill once you get to his unit?
3. That’s it.
4. Yep, really, he only really has the one minus point, and it’s that he is fragile. Weak. A pussy. He’s about as hard as Elijah Wood (Archno: All the wanking gave him a constant boner, but let's not poke fun at Frodo and Sam, homosexual consensual sex can be a beautiful beautiful thing).
5. Err…He saved the Old World? And the actual world. It’s in Giantslayer. Check out that series, by the way, it’s awesome (Archno: Yeah but then you have to compare Gotrek to Teclis, and you just know Gotrek would have Teclis, as Gotrek is wearing roughly the mass of Cathay in Plot Armour).
So, I hope from this article, you’ve seen why precisely Teclis is a wanker. Course, I still use him. Why? Because I’m
Night folks. I’m off to attend to the essay which I’m ignoring to write this.
Stay safe!
The Lieutenant
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Love Will Tear Us Apart... Again...
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| It's so easy to look sombre when you're playing guitar. |
So what do you think? Any ideas as to my Skaven armies or what? Should I stay or should I go?
Help me!
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Wednesday 24 November 2010
Too Horrible to Die.
Ok then folks, welcome to Too Horrible to Die. This is a post with a double meaning, cause in addition to describing the current state of my blog, it also sums up the post's content! Woohoo! Check out how efficient I am (cause I'm quite pressed for time). :D
Right then, well, reasons this blog has been stagnant lately. Busy with work, busy with an exam for work (which was then moved to january, on the day I expected to sit it), been ill, deprived of sleep and Warmahordes. Mostly warmahordes and work, to be fair. Oh, and I GM'd a WHFRP session on saturday, which took up all saturday and sunday. So, busy times.
Anyway, onto this post. Tonight (and over the next few nights) I'm going to talk to you about things that're too horrible to die. This includes Hellpits, Hydras, "Super-Hordes", "Uber-units", general overspending, Margaret Thatcher, "Finesse units", FAAC gamers, Elitists within systems, BoLS Lounge, Forumitis, Michael Bay (including platinum dunes, leave shit I like the fuck alone), Transformers, Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War, Assassins Creed, Army of Two, generic shooters, people going off topic and Stelek (c'mon, if he had any special rule it'd be Tactical Genius swiftly followed by Too Horrible to Die).
Ok that's a bit of an exaggeration, I'm not going to talk about all that. You could consider this a part of "You suck and this is why." It's pointing out some long lasting flaws and mistakes in the community of gamers, as well as some newer ones.
Ok so I'll start with Uber units. Now, Uber units and deathstars are two seperate entities. An uber unit is 12 blood knights with 5 vampires and all the trimmings. A deathstar is 50 phoenix guard with teclis and a BSB with the Banner of the World Dragon inside. Ok, let's talk about why people think Uber units are good, but why Uber units are actually really bad.
So you and your opponent deploy. You have your 12 KotBK and 5 Vampire unit, as well as 2 other units. He has 10 units. He places a cheap skirmisher unit, you place your cheap core choice. He places a cheap skirmisher unit again, and you place your 2nd core choice. Then he places a small-ish shooting unit, and you have to place your uber unit, meaning he can dictate the pace of the game from the get go. See how this is fun?
In addition, redirectors and the like really screw you something awful. Why? Well you have 1500pts invested purely into killing. What happens when they spend all game doing sweet fa? Yeah, I figured. No really, I did. In fact, this is a tactic I've used since 6th edition. See I played Summoning Horde, where I had more models than sense, and I could just put a small irritating unit of zombies in front of your unit. Or, if I felt nasty, raise a big unit and arkhan's it into your rear. Then your big killy unit was stuck against what is effectively nothing (compared to it's own cost) for a turn. Then you get another unit put in front of you next turn. And the next. And so on.
In addition, there's a certain element of overkill. I actually did a diagram on this a while back, will justifying my big units. There's only a certain amount of killy you need in a game, anything more is usually wasted. Unless you're fighting unbreakable units, or units that wont run. Right, if I'm honest, there's actually a fair point to be made here in that against mega-anvils you will probably want a lot of killy to burn through the ranks and unbreakable, you also don't want to spend too many points in that unit. It's about making sure you have enough killy and aren't just wasting points.
Now, I have to stop here folks, but I'll be back. I'm just doing as much as I can in the short times I'm not busy!
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 |
| But too horrible to let live! (Also check my new haircut) |
Right then, well, reasons this blog has been stagnant lately. Busy with work, busy with an exam for work (which was then moved to january, on the day I expected to sit it), been ill, deprived of sleep and Warmahordes. Mostly warmahordes and work, to be fair. Oh, and I GM'd a WHFRP session on saturday, which took up all saturday and sunday. So, busy times.
Anyway, onto this post. Tonight (and over the next few nights) I'm going to talk to you about things that're too horrible to die. This includes Hellpits, Hydras, "Super-Hordes", "Uber-units", general overspending, Margaret Thatcher, "Finesse units", FAAC gamers, Elitists within systems, BoLS Lounge, Forumitis, Michael Bay (including platinum dunes, leave shit I like the fuck alone), Transformers, Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War, Assassins Creed, Army of Two, generic shooters, people going off topic and Stelek (c'mon, if he had any special rule it'd be Tactical Genius swiftly followed by Too Horrible to Die).
Ok that's a bit of an exaggeration, I'm not going to talk about all that. You could consider this a part of "You suck and this is why." It's pointing out some long lasting flaws and mistakes in the community of gamers, as well as some newer ones.
Ok so I'll start with Uber units. Now, Uber units and deathstars are two seperate entities. An uber unit is 12 blood knights with 5 vampires and all the trimmings. A deathstar is 50 phoenix guard with teclis and a BSB with the Banner of the World Dragon inside. Ok, let's talk about why people think Uber units are good, but why Uber units are actually really bad.
So you and your opponent deploy. You have your 12 KotBK and 5 Vampire unit, as well as 2 other units. He has 10 units. He places a cheap skirmisher unit, you place your cheap core choice. He places a cheap skirmisher unit again, and you place your 2nd core choice. Then he places a small-ish shooting unit, and you have to place your uber unit, meaning he can dictate the pace of the game from the get go. See how this is fun?
In addition, redirectors and the like really screw you something awful. Why? Well you have 1500pts invested purely into killing. What happens when they spend all game doing sweet fa? Yeah, I figured. No really, I did. In fact, this is a tactic I've used since 6th edition. See I played Summoning Horde, where I had more models than sense, and I could just put a small irritating unit of zombies in front of your unit. Or, if I felt nasty, raise a big unit and arkhan's it into your rear. Then your big killy unit was stuck against what is effectively nothing (compared to it's own cost) for a turn. Then you get another unit put in front of you next turn. And the next. And so on.
In addition, there's a certain element of overkill. I actually did a diagram on this a while back, will justifying my big units. There's only a certain amount of killy you need in a game, anything more is usually wasted. Unless you're fighting unbreakable units, or units that wont run. Right, if I'm honest, there's actually a fair point to be made here in that against mega-anvils you will probably want a lot of killy to burn through the ranks and unbreakable, you also don't want to spend too many points in that unit. It's about making sure you have enough killy and aren't just wasting points.
Now, I have to stop here folks, but I'll be back. I'm just doing as much as I can in the short times I'm not busy!
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Sunday 14 November 2010
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay - A Beginning.
Here's the beginning of the campaign I'm going to be GMing next weekend. The character in the story is going to be my PC within the game. This small intro is pretty much a framing device, but all criticism is welcome!
It looked bleak.
Virivoldht gazed out at the morning sun, his eyelids hanging heavily. Truth be told he was struggling to do much of anything at this point. His side was in searing agony and he could feel the dried blood cracking with every move he made. Every jolt as the wagon went over a bump in the trail was it's own personal hell. Looking up at the trees he could see the frost thawing and dripping regularly from the needles onto the ground, each making miniscule splashes. This calmed him somewhat, it was like listening to the ticking of a clock. He turned a corner and the glaring morning sun shone brilliantly across the treetops, illuminating them like some row of celestial sentinels.
Passing over another bump he winced. These damn dirt roads are horrible, he thought to himself. Mulling things over, he thought he had every right to afford himself some self pity. His entire convoy lay dead about 3 leagues behind him, presumably stripped to the bone by those beasts. He was the only survivor, and he only survived by fleeing where his companions held. Even then, he still took a few swipes from some follower of the Dark Gods before he fled. But flee he did, and it sat like a ten tonne weight on his shoulders. He was never one for remorse, or attachment, but those men and women had served him well and he felt a tiny pinprick of guilt penetrate his veil of self pity.
Regardless, he thought, what mattered was he had gotten his cargo through intact. Yes, he would be paid very well for it, so at least he had something to be happy about. Hearing a whistle from behind him in the wagon he offered a prayer of thanks, someone had obviously been listening and had decided to add another item to his collection of things to be happy about. His concoction was ready. A foul smelling brew of local herbs and extracts, but nevertheless it would disinfect and speed the healing of his wound, in addition to dulling the pain.
Tying the reins to a railing he turned round to attend his boiling pot. Stepping into the back of the wagon he saw his mobile workroom, full of vials, bottles, jars and bags. Inside everything was an extract, a herb, an elixir. For Virivoldht was an alchemist, and a damn successful one. He had a knack for distillation of essences, and he could make something useful from almost anything found in nature. Stepping up to his pot, which was boiling on a small alchemical fire, he grabbed a rag and dipped it in. He rubbed the scalding hot liquid over his side, dried blood flaking and crumbling away, revealing the gash in it's entirety. It wasn't particularly deep except for the point of initial incision, which would probably need stitched, however it was long. It ran down the length of his side, and he winced in pain for every inch he rubbed the scalding rag down.
Grabbing a bottle of his own (and much improved, sitting at about two thirds alcohol while the kislevites could barely get more than one) brew of Kislevite vodka he returned to the driver's seat, noticing the bloodstains around where he had been seated. Taking a swig he tried to drive out the pangs of guilt as he came to the conclusion it couldn't have all been his own. What was wrong with him? He never felt bad about anything he'd done before in his life and some of his acts had been less than virtuous. Well, he thought to himself, he would just have to get some new companions to replace them. He still had some travelling to do, and this wagon wasn't going to defend itself.
Cursing as he went over a particularly large bump, he came around the top of a small hillock and saw, towering above him, his destination. The archaic city walls, bastions and towers framed by the rising sun, it was something to strike awe into the most apathetic of men. However, he didn't have time to gawp and stare, he hadn't slept in over a day and he very much needed to. Grimacing, he started down the winding trail to the city.
And a pair of eyes watched him the whole way down.
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It looked bleak.
Virivoldht gazed out at the morning sun, his eyelids hanging heavily. Truth be told he was struggling to do much of anything at this point. His side was in searing agony and he could feel the dried blood cracking with every move he made. Every jolt as the wagon went over a bump in the trail was it's own personal hell. Looking up at the trees he could see the frost thawing and dripping regularly from the needles onto the ground, each making miniscule splashes. This calmed him somewhat, it was like listening to the ticking of a clock. He turned a corner and the glaring morning sun shone brilliantly across the treetops, illuminating them like some row of celestial sentinels.
Passing over another bump he winced. These damn dirt roads are horrible, he thought to himself. Mulling things over, he thought he had every right to afford himself some self pity. His entire convoy lay dead about 3 leagues behind him, presumably stripped to the bone by those beasts. He was the only survivor, and he only survived by fleeing where his companions held. Even then, he still took a few swipes from some follower of the Dark Gods before he fled. But flee he did, and it sat like a ten tonne weight on his shoulders. He was never one for remorse, or attachment, but those men and women had served him well and he felt a tiny pinprick of guilt penetrate his veil of self pity.
Regardless, he thought, what mattered was he had gotten his cargo through intact. Yes, he would be paid very well for it, so at least he had something to be happy about. Hearing a whistle from behind him in the wagon he offered a prayer of thanks, someone had obviously been listening and had decided to add another item to his collection of things to be happy about. His concoction was ready. A foul smelling brew of local herbs and extracts, but nevertheless it would disinfect and speed the healing of his wound, in addition to dulling the pain.
Tying the reins to a railing he turned round to attend his boiling pot. Stepping into the back of the wagon he saw his mobile workroom, full of vials, bottles, jars and bags. Inside everything was an extract, a herb, an elixir. For Virivoldht was an alchemist, and a damn successful one. He had a knack for distillation of essences, and he could make something useful from almost anything found in nature. Stepping up to his pot, which was boiling on a small alchemical fire, he grabbed a rag and dipped it in. He rubbed the scalding hot liquid over his side, dried blood flaking and crumbling away, revealing the gash in it's entirety. It wasn't particularly deep except for the point of initial incision, which would probably need stitched, however it was long. It ran down the length of his side, and he winced in pain for every inch he rubbed the scalding rag down.
Grabbing a bottle of his own (and much improved, sitting at about two thirds alcohol while the kislevites could barely get more than one) brew of Kislevite vodka he returned to the driver's seat, noticing the bloodstains around where he had been seated. Taking a swig he tried to drive out the pangs of guilt as he came to the conclusion it couldn't have all been his own. What was wrong with him? He never felt bad about anything he'd done before in his life and some of his acts had been less than virtuous. Well, he thought to himself, he would just have to get some new companions to replace them. He still had some travelling to do, and this wagon wasn't going to defend itself.
Cursing as he went over a particularly large bump, he came around the top of a small hillock and saw, towering above him, his destination. The archaic city walls, bastions and towers framed by the rising sun, it was something to strike awe into the most apathetic of men. However, he didn't have time to gawp and stare, he hadn't slept in over a day and he very much needed to. Grimacing, he started down the winding trail to the city.
And a pair of eyes watched him the whole way down.
Read more!
Skaven. Part Three - Core Choices Section A.
Ok folks, back again with another review, this time core choices. Quite a bit shorter this time, don't worry. ^^Ok then folks, today I'm talking about Slaves, Clanrats and Stormvermin, but not in that order! Here we have it;
As ever, I hope you enjoyed the article, and please comment on it, and the format! (As in audio format)
P.s. Blogger has stopped acting up, so I have to apologise for my lack of conversation on Rat Swarms. They'll be in the next post. Read more!
Skaven. Part Two - Rare Choices.
Seeing as I'm not above (constructive) criticism I took some and decided to work from a less rigid script. I wrote down some ideas and key points I wanted to cover (50 words or so) and went from there. You can judge the results. This does mean, however you have no script, as there's no way I'm transcribing this.
Intro and the strengths of the Hellpit:
Weaknesses of the Hellpit and the Doomwheel:
Warp Lightning Cannons, Plagueclaw Catapults and Conclusion:
There's a slight skip in there around the Wheel's misfire table, but I didn't notice it until I uploaded this. I'm sure you guys can survive those extra ten seconds!
Hope you guys enjoyed the article! Please give some feedback in regards to the format! Read more!
Friday 12 November 2010
Skaven. Part One.
Hey folks, the first part of the Skaven review. Just a brief look at Skaven as an army. With a special surprise...
IT'S AN AUDIO REVIEW! Yeah man! Check that shit out. Sorry it's a bit quiet, just turn up your sound, I didn't realise I had mine turned up when I was playing it back to myself, so I'm sorry.
Here's the script if you're having difficulty following it (I like to think I'm pretty well spoken though, I spend all day on the phone. Brief note at the bottom of the article too, just skip the italicised stuff if you don't want to read along with me.
Skaven.
Skaven, eh?
Well, let's start off with my thoughts on the lovely furry little ratmen. I personally am absolutely in love with the theme of this army, and their fluff and all that good stuff. Definitely the WHFB army for me at the moment. However, it is true that I've been having some difficulty making them work as of late. Mostly I've just been drifing from point to point, playstyle to playstyle and list to list, not finding one that sits just right. See I wanted a shooty army, and while skaven can do that, and woah can they do that, but they can't do it well enough to win games pretty much on it entirely. Disagree with it if you want, but some armies can just shrug off your shooting and you'll be left high and dry. Then what, eh?
------------------------------------------
See, I believe 8th edition fantasy is won or lost in combat. I know, shooting got really good, and it did. But there's some things shooting can't deal with, in addition there's some things that even if you shoot them, they'll hurt you when they reach your lines. I have a few more shooty ideas that Iwant to try, but I'll save that for another time, at the moment I'm gagging to try close combat. Now I'm aware close combat isn't really regarded a strong suit of the skaven, but they can do something that no other army (to my knowledge) can do in this edition. Field a fully unbreakable army. That's pretty big. I like the 2000 point list I'm toting about at the moment, with the seer, 60 clanrats, warpfire thrower, 10 stormvermin with stormbanner, plague furnace, 37 monks with flaming banner and 2 hellpits. I think that'll kick some serious arse.
--------------------------------------------
However, I'm veering off topic. This isn't what I'm here to talk to you about, I'm here to talk to you about the army as a whole. So... skaven. Well, as an army you can expect good mobility for infantry, but you can be outpaced by most armies because Skaven have no cavalry, barring character mounts, or flyers. They do have a Verminlord who is pretty speedy, but everything tends to move around 10 inches a turn. Skaven, as an army however, can compete in all four phases of warhammer. While their movement may not be fast, they do have good movement denial, with lots of redirectors, the storm banner, as well as 2 unit choices that break conventional movement. Those being the Doomwheel and the Hellpit.
Skaven shooting used to be something close to legend. I'm sure you've all heard of the S.A.D. The Skaven army of death, or Shooty army of death. That list with 2 Warp Lightning Cannons, a bunch of jezzails, a seer, 3 warlocks and a bazillion ratling guns. Ah, those were the glory days of the skaven empire. Gone now, but what can you do, eh? Nowadays we have some pretty boss infantry clearers, coming in the form of a lot of templates. The main ones of course being the Warpfire Thrower, the Poisoned Wind Mortar and the Warp Lightning Cannon. Infantry and ogre sized models can expect to just die to skaven shooting. No questions asked, just die. Something that we can struggle against though is Biggies. Big gribbly monsters like stegadons and hydras and bloodthirsters and all that good stuff. Now, unless you bring a good battery of jezzails (probably about 40) you can't really expect to drop these things quickly. Sure, we have doomwheels and warp lightning cannons but they're about as reliable as a mechanic getting paid by the hour to get the job done on time. No offense to any mechanics that might be out there, I'm sure you're people of unquestionable virtue. Now, I get a lot of shtick for constantly dumping on doomwheels, but realistically, while their shooting against monsters may be pretty reliable, anyone with an ickle bickle of tactical acumen can make it so you're not going to get to shoot their precious monsters. Putting skirmishers in the way tends to do this.
"But Will, I'll just charge the skirmishers and break through to the monster!"
"But moron, i'm going to hold with the bloody skirmishers"
Or just not let the thing with an average movement of 10" that has to move in a straight line near my things with an average movement of 12" that can pivot an unlimited amount of times while moving.
What I'm saying is, Skaven shooting does a wonderful job at clearing out infantry and ogre sized stuff, but expect to have trouble with anything big with a high toughness.
--------------------------------------------
Skaven combat is a weird one. We're pretty fragile, but very hitty. See, Plague Furnaces are very hitty. Very very hitty. But they can't take a punch. T6 is nice. 6W is nice. No save is not nice. A good CC unit will hack one of these up for breakfast. That is, a unit with high strength attacks, or maybe a multiple wound causer. Means you really really want to break them on the first round of combat and run them down. Screaming Bells aren't a combat unit, in my opinion. They're a tarpit maker and army buffer. Sure, the tarpit they're in can kill units but it's a totally random thing (rolling a 13 with death frenzy helps. 279 attacks you say?) that can't be relied on, unless you're fighting a flimsy unit or the seer up top lends some magic assistance (such as 13thing that unit of chaos warriors you just charged).But it does make a good tarpit. Plague Censer Bearers are good, they're also very very very hitty. But they're not so good now due to Init 3. That's all there is to it, about half the armies out there will just hack em down before they can swing. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Then there's the hellpit. Fragile, yes (shut up they are), but hoah nelly are they killy. Most skaven combat units shouldn't expect to survive 2 combats. No really, after a hellpit has walked through 2 infantry units it'll be pretty worse for wear. People seem to forget it's only toughness 5 with a 4+ save. It's a lot less resilient than the hydra, the complains for which seem to have been replaced with complaints for the hellpit, which I disagree with entirely.
Anyway, skaven combat is devastating usually, and skaven combat blocks don't move, because they're unbreakable or stubborn. Another honourable mention should probably go to hordes (not literally, just big units) of slaves, as with LD10 and a reroll (you did bring a BSB if you're using these?) they won't be going anywhere soon, and they can even wear down those small elite units with attrition. Things like black guard and white lions. That kind of thing. Two casualties a round adds up when that combat goes on for 8 rounds.
--------------------------------------------------
Skaven magic. I already did an article on this! Check that out! I'll put a link in the thread for god's sake. Just don't expect me to re-review it. Basically it's good. Damn good. It supports the army well and gets rid of things you would otherwise struggle to deal with. Also dreaded 13th.
----------------------------------------------------
A final note on psychology. Skaven generals are very much a lynchpin. Hence my recent attitude of "Protect them! PROTECT THEEEEMMM!" This is because when your general dies your army's leadership tends to jump down from 8 to 5 if you're playing MSU. It's not such a big deal if you're doing the unbreakable list, but if you're playing slave hordes it's a very big deal, as you go from LD 10 to LD5. Not good. Not good at all. It can result in an effect similar to killing a vampire general. The entire army just folds after it happens, which is why I'm trying to make my army less reliant on leadership. Minimising panic can be very hard to do with MSU skaven, as you have so many units, spreading out becomes increasingly difficult, especially if your opponent can hem you in.
Anyway, that's a brief overview of the skaven army. What it boils down to is we can compete in all 4 phases, have trouble with big gribblies, have either amazing leadership or terrible leadership, and can come across kind of glass cannon-alpha strike esque.
So, there we go. First ever audio post on the blog. Check it out! If this goes down well, it may become a regular thing!
The pictures while you're reading it are a lie. The link to my magic article however is not a lie. Here we are: http://kavzar.blogspot.com/2010/10/skaven-magic-ruin-plague-and-dreaded.html
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
:3
P.s. Been sitting watching this upload for 30 minutes... This may not be so regular if this is how long it takes for the vid to upload. Jesus... Read more!
IT'S AN AUDIO REVIEW! Yeah man! Check that shit out. Sorry it's a bit quiet, just turn up your sound, I didn't realise I had mine turned up when I was playing it back to myself, so I'm sorry.
Here's the script if you're having difficulty following it (I like to think I'm pretty well spoken though, I spend all day on the phone. Brief note at the bottom of the article too, just skip the italicised stuff if you don't want to read along with me.
Skaven.
Skaven, eh?
Well, let's start off with my thoughts on the lovely furry little ratmen. I personally am absolutely in love with the theme of this army, and their fluff and all that good stuff. Definitely the WHFB army for me at the moment. However, it is true that I've been having some difficulty making them work as of late. Mostly I've just been drifing from point to point, playstyle to playstyle and list to list, not finding one that sits just right. See I wanted a shooty army, and while skaven can do that, and woah can they do that, but they can't do it well enough to win games pretty much on it entirely. Disagree with it if you want, but some armies can just shrug off your shooting and you'll be left high and dry. Then what, eh?
------------------------------------------
See, I believe 8th edition fantasy is won or lost in combat. I know, shooting got really good, and it did. But there's some things shooting can't deal with, in addition there's some things that even if you shoot them, they'll hurt you when they reach your lines. I have a few more shooty ideas that Iwant to try, but I'll save that for another time, at the moment I'm gagging to try close combat. Now I'm aware close combat isn't really regarded a strong suit of the skaven, but they can do something that no other army (to my knowledge) can do in this edition. Field a fully unbreakable army. That's pretty big. I like the 2000 point list I'm toting about at the moment, with the seer, 60 clanrats, warpfire thrower, 10 stormvermin with stormbanner, plague furnace, 37 monks with flaming banner and 2 hellpits. I think that'll kick some serious arse.
--------------------------------------------
However, I'm veering off topic. This isn't what I'm here to talk to you about, I'm here to talk to you about the army as a whole. So... skaven. Well, as an army you can expect good mobility for infantry, but you can be outpaced by most armies because Skaven have no cavalry, barring character mounts, or flyers. They do have a Verminlord who is pretty speedy, but everything tends to move around 10 inches a turn. Skaven, as an army however, can compete in all four phases of warhammer. While their movement may not be fast, they do have good movement denial, with lots of redirectors, the storm banner, as well as 2 unit choices that break conventional movement. Those being the Doomwheel and the Hellpit.
Skaven shooting used to be something close to legend. I'm sure you've all heard of the S.A.D. The Skaven army of death, or Shooty army of death. That list with 2 Warp Lightning Cannons, a bunch of jezzails, a seer, 3 warlocks and a bazillion ratling guns. Ah, those were the glory days of the skaven empire. Gone now, but what can you do, eh? Nowadays we have some pretty boss infantry clearers, coming in the form of a lot of templates. The main ones of course being the Warpfire Thrower, the Poisoned Wind Mortar and the Warp Lightning Cannon. Infantry and ogre sized models can expect to just die to skaven shooting. No questions asked, just die. Something that we can struggle against though is Biggies. Big gribbly monsters like stegadons and hydras and bloodthirsters and all that good stuff. Now, unless you bring a good battery of jezzails (probably about 40) you can't really expect to drop these things quickly. Sure, we have doomwheels and warp lightning cannons but they're about as reliable as a mechanic getting paid by the hour to get the job done on time. No offense to any mechanics that might be out there, I'm sure you're people of unquestionable virtue. Now, I get a lot of shtick for constantly dumping on doomwheels, but realistically, while their shooting against monsters may be pretty reliable, anyone with an ickle bickle of tactical acumen can make it so you're not going to get to shoot their precious monsters. Putting skirmishers in the way tends to do this.
"But Will, I'll just charge the skirmishers and break through to the monster!"
"But moron, i'm going to hold with the bloody skirmishers"
Or just not let the thing with an average movement of 10" that has to move in a straight line near my things with an average movement of 12" that can pivot an unlimited amount of times while moving.
What I'm saying is, Skaven shooting does a wonderful job at clearing out infantry and ogre sized stuff, but expect to have trouble with anything big with a high toughness.
--------------------------------------------
Skaven combat is a weird one. We're pretty fragile, but very hitty. See, Plague Furnaces are very hitty. Very very hitty. But they can't take a punch. T6 is nice. 6W is nice. No save is not nice. A good CC unit will hack one of these up for breakfast. That is, a unit with high strength attacks, or maybe a multiple wound causer. Means you really really want to break them on the first round of combat and run them down. Screaming Bells aren't a combat unit, in my opinion. They're a tarpit maker and army buffer. Sure, the tarpit they're in can kill units but it's a totally random thing (rolling a 13 with death frenzy helps. 279 attacks you say?) that can't be relied on, unless you're fighting a flimsy unit or the seer up top lends some magic assistance (such as 13thing that unit of chaos warriors you just charged).But it does make a good tarpit. Plague Censer Bearers are good, they're also very very very hitty. But they're not so good now due to Init 3. That's all there is to it, about half the armies out there will just hack em down before they can swing. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Then there's the hellpit. Fragile, yes (shut up they are), but hoah nelly are they killy. Most skaven combat units shouldn't expect to survive 2 combats. No really, after a hellpit has walked through 2 infantry units it'll be pretty worse for wear. People seem to forget it's only toughness 5 with a 4+ save. It's a lot less resilient than the hydra, the complains for which seem to have been replaced with complaints for the hellpit, which I disagree with entirely.
Anyway, skaven combat is devastating usually, and skaven combat blocks don't move, because they're unbreakable or stubborn. Another honourable mention should probably go to hordes (not literally, just big units) of slaves, as with LD10 and a reroll (you did bring a BSB if you're using these?) they won't be going anywhere soon, and they can even wear down those small elite units with attrition. Things like black guard and white lions. That kind of thing. Two casualties a round adds up when that combat goes on for 8 rounds.
--------------------------------------------------
Skaven magic. I already did an article on this! Check that out! I'll put a link in the thread for god's sake. Just don't expect me to re-review it. Basically it's good. Damn good. It supports the army well and gets rid of things you would otherwise struggle to deal with. Also dreaded 13th.
----------------------------------------------------
A final note on psychology. Skaven generals are very much a lynchpin. Hence my recent attitude of "Protect them! PROTECT THEEEEMMM!" This is because when your general dies your army's leadership tends to jump down from 8 to 5 if you're playing MSU. It's not such a big deal if you're doing the unbreakable list, but if you're playing slave hordes it's a very big deal, as you go from LD 10 to LD5. Not good. Not good at all. It can result in an effect similar to killing a vampire general. The entire army just folds after it happens, which is why I'm trying to make my army less reliant on leadership. Minimising panic can be very hard to do with MSU skaven, as you have so many units, spreading out becomes increasingly difficult, especially if your opponent can hem you in.
Anyway, that's a brief overview of the skaven army. What it boils down to is we can compete in all 4 phases, have trouble with big gribblies, have either amazing leadership or terrible leadership, and can come across kind of glass cannon-alpha strike esque.
So, there we go. First ever audio post on the blog. Check it out! If this goes down well, it may become a regular thing!
The pictures while you're reading it are a lie. The link to my magic article however is not a lie. Here we are: http://kavzar.blogspot.com/2010/10/skaven-magic-ruin-plague-and-dreaded.html
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
:3
P.s. Been sitting watching this upload for 30 minutes... This may not be so regular if this is how long it takes for the vid to upload. Jesus... Read more!
An apology....
Folks, let me apologise. With work, starting a new army, and general hectic-ness (organising a trip to australia) my blog has fallen by the wayside somewhat. I will continue to make at least a post a week, but for perhaps the next week or two it will be a much slower event.
Sorry folks >:
I promise, that guide to magic and the skaven guide will be up as soon as I can spare the time. I could write it when I get home from work but I can tell you now it wont be to an acceptable (by my standards) quality.
Thanks folks. And sorry. >: Read more!
Sorry folks >:
I promise, that guide to magic and the skaven guide will be up as soon as I can spare the time. I could write it when I get home from work but I can tell you now it wont be to an acceptable (by my standards) quality.
Thanks folks. And sorry. >: Read more!
Sunday 7 November 2010
Warriors of Chaos. Part Three.
So we come to an end to this saga, detailing Warriors of Chaos in the competitive atmosphere. At least, my opinion of Warriors in said competitive atmosphere. Harrumph. Basically it boils down to WS5 S5 I5 A2 is good. However, how do I feel WoC can do in a competitive environment? Well, read on and find out.
See, Warriors of Chaos are very good at what they do. Kill things in melee. Beating WoC in melee is no easy task, don't get me wrong, but they really, really suffer if they don't get to fight back. Whether it's through debuffs, ASF, higher init or being shot from across the board, they don't like it.
Which leads to the problem. A lot (and I mean a lot) of the popular armies in the current "meta" can hit WoC before WoC can strike back. High Elves as a race, Empire with their guns and magic, Lizzies with magic and sallies, also impact hits if they take stegs. WoC do not like impact hits. Now, see if WoC were M5/6, this really wouldn't be as much of a problem I feel, as they'd be able to dictate the control of battle better. That said, HE would still give them fucking night terrors.
"Ok then Archy, why not just take one of those VP denial lists like your skaven?". Well... you can do that, sure. It'll prolly win games. But I wouldn't expect it to win tourneys. The reason for this is those skaven can take 5 big nasties as well as big hordes to clog people up. WoC get either units that don't go anywhere, or units that can fight. They don't really get a combination. You can make an argument of Marauders w/MoTz, and don't get me wrong, I'd expect a WoC horde army of those to do well, but I wouldn't expect it to win tourneys. Just cause some things will be able to beat it by virtue of magic/shooting/maneouverability. "But archy, your skaven lists aren't mobile!". No, but I do have the best flank protecters in warhammer, that is a pair of hellpits. In addition to having magic that's really good for that king of thing. WoC sadly do not.
So where do I feel WoC slot into the competitive game? See.... they're victims of rock paper scissors. There's a few armies I can think of (HE especially) that will just scythe them down. Then there's some match ups they're brutal against. So if you take WoC, expect to have a good time of it, but it was like playing brettonians against the old zombie horde. Every now and then there'll be one of those games where the odds will be so heavily stacked against you that you may feel like just giving up.
Makes winning much sweeter though.
So if I did WoC, I would run one of the following lists;
Sorc Lord
BSB
Many many units of 50 marauders with great weapons and MoTz
Redirector killing units.
Sorc Lord
BSB
MSU format as in my previous articles
Exalted Hero w/Banner of Discipline in his unit
BSB
MSU format as in my previous articles
Any one of those WoC lists I would expect to do well. The latter two more than others, but they're more vulnerable to a cookie cutter matchup. That said the first of the three is magic vulnerable. You just can't win. Why can't we all be Empire? Oh, and never, never never leave home without your Infernal Puppet.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ok folks, the next in line to get a series of reviews done is Skaven! So, that'll start sometime this week I hope, possibly tomorrow. Any requests as to where I should start? If no one puts forward a suggestion I'm probably going to go with core units.
Read more!
See, Warriors of Chaos are very good at what they do. Kill things in melee. Beating WoC in melee is no easy task, don't get me wrong, but they really, really suffer if they don't get to fight back. Whether it's through debuffs, ASF, higher init or being shot from across the board, they don't like it.
Which leads to the problem. A lot (and I mean a lot) of the popular armies in the current "meta" can hit WoC before WoC can strike back. High Elves as a race, Empire with their guns and magic, Lizzies with magic and sallies, also impact hits if they take stegs. WoC do not like impact hits. Now, see if WoC were M5/6, this really wouldn't be as much of a problem I feel, as they'd be able to dictate the control of battle better. That said, HE would still give them fucking night terrors.
"Ok then Archy, why not just take one of those VP denial lists like your skaven?". Well... you can do that, sure. It'll prolly win games. But I wouldn't expect it to win tourneys. The reason for this is those skaven can take 5 big nasties as well as big hordes to clog people up. WoC get either units that don't go anywhere, or units that can fight. They don't really get a combination. You can make an argument of Marauders w/MoTz, and don't get me wrong, I'd expect a WoC horde army of those to do well, but I wouldn't expect it to win tourneys. Just cause some things will be able to beat it by virtue of magic/shooting/maneouverability. "But archy, your skaven lists aren't mobile!". No, but I do have the best flank protecters in warhammer, that is a pair of hellpits. In addition to having magic that's really good for that king of thing. WoC sadly do not.
So where do I feel WoC slot into the competitive game? See.... they're victims of rock paper scissors. There's a few armies I can think of (HE especially) that will just scythe them down. Then there's some match ups they're brutal against. So if you take WoC, expect to have a good time of it, but it was like playing brettonians against the old zombie horde. Every now and then there'll be one of those games where the odds will be so heavily stacked against you that you may feel like just giving up.
Makes winning much sweeter though.
So if I did WoC, I would run one of the following lists;
Sorc Lord
BSB
Many many units of 50 marauders with great weapons and MoTz
Redirector killing units.
Sorc Lord
BSB
MSU format as in my previous articles
Exalted Hero w/Banner of Discipline in his unit
BSB
MSU format as in my previous articles
Any one of those WoC lists I would expect to do well. The latter two more than others, but they're more vulnerable to a cookie cutter matchup. That said the first of the three is magic vulnerable. You just can't win. Why can't we all be Empire? Oh, and never, never never leave home without your Infernal Puppet.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ok folks, the next in line to get a series of reviews done is Skaven! So, that'll start sometime this week I hope, possibly tomorrow. Any requests as to where I should start? If no one puts forward a suggestion I'm probably going to go with core units.
Read more!
Saturday 6 November 2010
If you go into the woods today....
You better not go alone...
So this is pretty much a list I feel embodies the MSU principles I was talking about earlier. The reason this list will work is the general is LD9. Not LD7. The general is also a badass mofo who doesn't afraid of anyone.
Finally, this list fights in combat. And that's where I believe WHFB is lost and won (especially in this edition). So....
Lord
Beastlord
Heavy Armour
Gnarled Hide
Shield
Ramhorn Helm
Dawnstone
Stone of Spite
234
General, well protected, can fight. Has the stone of spite. Now this thing is funny, wait for a turn you get a lot of PD and your opponent gets few DD, or where you get 6 PD. Pour 6 dice into this and pray for a double 6 (bout 25% of the time), and giggle as you kill something important. Could be amazing, could be awful. However, I know a lot of elf players are about these days, and teclis has 3 arcane items...
Heroes
Wargor
Heavy Armour
Chalice of Dark Rain
Battle Standard
Shield
156
BSB with shooting protection. Not much to say about this guy...
Core
Tuskgor Chariot
80
Tuskgor Chariot
80
Tuskgor Chariot
80
Tuskgor Chariot
80
Tuskgor Chariot
80
Cheap, lots of them, quite speedy when it comes to charging, and can hit hard. Cool, for 80pts anyway. And core. Sign me up.
8 Ungor Raiders
48
9 Ungor Raiders
54
5 Ungor Raiders
30
5 Ungor Raiders
30
5 Ungor Raiders
30
Standard redirection. The general and BSB go in the bigger units. Means you have some melee threat in your bubble of redirection.
10 Ungor
Standard
56
10 Ungor
Standard
56
Standards for Blood and Glory. Also redirectors. (:
Special
3 Razorgor
165
3 Razorgor
165
3 Razorgor
165
3 Minotaurs
Additional Hand Weapons
177
3 Minotaurs
Additional Hand Weapons
177
The real muscle of this list. Hitting hard and fast with 12 S5 attacks for the razors and 15 S5 attacks for the minotaurs these should put the hurting on most units. Sure they're slow as treacle (init wise) but you should be hitting in the flank. If they're not you need a word with your redirectors.
5 Harpies
55
So I had some spare points at the end. There's also times it's just useful to have a flyer. Sue me.
So, like I said this list pretty much embodies the stuff I was saying about MSU. Now, why beastmen? Well frankly I've always liked the race and I think they take a lot of abuse for being shit. I'd love to see this list trample over most armies. I mean you have 17 targets running about, 12 of which are combat threats. So aye, go for it I say. Sure magic will give you a bit of trouble but I went more for the "run in and make the wizard eat his own hat" approach. It's all about knowing which spell to stop. In my test game with the no magic skaven list it wasn't magic that screwed me, it was LD, and the inability to fight my way out of a wet paper bag.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
Read more!
So this is pretty much a list I feel embodies the MSU principles I was talking about earlier. The reason this list will work is the general is LD9. Not LD7. The general is also a badass mofo who doesn't afraid of anyone.
Finally, this list fights in combat. And that's where I believe WHFB is lost and won (especially in this edition). So....
Lord
Beastlord
Heavy Armour
Gnarled Hide
Shield
Ramhorn Helm
Dawnstone
Stone of Spite
234
General, well protected, can fight. Has the stone of spite. Now this thing is funny, wait for a turn you get a lot of PD and your opponent gets few DD, or where you get 6 PD. Pour 6 dice into this and pray for a double 6 (bout 25% of the time), and giggle as you kill something important. Could be amazing, could be awful. However, I know a lot of elf players are about these days, and teclis has 3 arcane items...
Heroes
Wargor
Heavy Armour
Chalice of Dark Rain
Battle Standard
Shield
156
BSB with shooting protection. Not much to say about this guy...
Core
Tuskgor Chariot
80
Tuskgor Chariot
80
Tuskgor Chariot
80
80
Tuskgor Chariot
80
Cheap, lots of them, quite speedy when it comes to charging, and can hit hard. Cool, for 80pts anyway. And core. Sign me up.
8 Ungor Raiders
48
9 Ungor Raiders
54
5 Ungor Raiders
30
5 Ungor Raiders
30
5 Ungor Raiders
30
Standard redirection. The general and BSB go in the bigger units. Means you have some melee threat in your bubble of redirection.
10 Ungor
Standard
56
10 Ungor
Standard
56
Standards for Blood and Glory. Also redirectors. (:
Special
3 Razorgor
165
3 Razorgor
165
3 Razorgor
165
3 Minotaurs
Additional Hand Weapons
177
3 Minotaurs
Additional Hand Weapons
177
The real muscle of this list. Hitting hard and fast with 12 S5 attacks for the razors and 15 S5 attacks for the minotaurs these should put the hurting on most units. Sure they're slow as treacle (init wise) but you should be hitting in the flank. If they're not you need a word with your redirectors.
5 Harpies
55
So I had some spare points at the end. There's also times it's just useful to have a flyer. Sue me.
So, like I said this list pretty much embodies the stuff I was saying about MSU. Now, why beastmen? Well frankly I've always liked the race and I think they take a lot of abuse for being shit. I'd love to see this list trample over most armies. I mean you have 17 targets running about, 12 of which are combat threats. So aye, go for it I say. Sure magic will give you a bit of trouble but I went more for the "run in and make the wizard eat his own hat" approach. It's all about knowing which spell to stop. In my test game with the no magic skaven list it wasn't magic that screwed me, it was LD, and the inability to fight my way out of a wet paper bag.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article.
Read more!
Friday 5 November 2010
A new approach...
Ok then folks. Now I have previously professed that deathstars are bad. And they are. However VP denial is not. Now the big problem with deathstars is they're damn easy to redirect about the board, which makes them feel like quite the fool. However, there is a pretty easy way around this.
Take more.
Armies with one big, super, not-maneouverable horde fail. They fail hard. Armies with one big, super, not-maneouverable horde with a high threat range win. Seriously. If your opponent only gets 200VPs by killing your support elements and you get 500 for taking out 2 units, you win. problem is against any opponent worth his salt that super horde is going nowhere before being hit by his whole army at once. So, how do we stop that? Simple really. Take more than one super unit. Wanna try dealing with 5 super units at once?
See, there's a certain amount of overkill I feel goes into deathstars. It's kind of like a tangent. At first the value seems to be increasing pretty rapidly, but you get to a certain point and then the distance between your values decrease, until it is barely noticeable. What I'm trying to get at here is more easily summed up in this diagram:
Now if we can imagine folks, the intersection at the black line is zombies, or goblins. The intersection at the red line is an empire swordsman, or a clanrat or something. You can see for a pretty minimal move forward you get a fair bit of gain, but it's not much compared to other stuff along the line. Blue can be something like a unit of chaos warriors, or white lions, or something. They're a fair bit further along the line, and do a lot of damage, for not much gain points.
The green line however is one of my deathstars. It does kill more than those units, yes. But it costs an awful lot more. Not necessarily a bad thing when VP denial is brought into it, as it means it denies those points. However at the top of the graph you can see one of those deathstars that the internet seems to love (the one that is 65% of your army in pts). Sure it'll crump everything in the game. But look how many wasted pts you're spending! In addition they're really easy to make do whatever the hell you want, because they're so blocky.
"Right ok Archy, but where are you going with this?"
Somewhere around here I reckon:
Grey Seer, Bell, Power Scroll
Plague Priest, Furnace, Flail
Plague Priest, Furnace, Flail
90 Clanrats, Full Command
10 Stormvermin, Standard, Storm Banner, Warpfire Thrower
25 Plague Monks, Full Command, Flaming Banner
25 Plague Monks, Full Command
Hellpit Abomination
Hellpit Abomination
2500
Now considering you get 3 cannons below 3k, what army can deal with those 5 big things marching toward them? In addition, like 1800pts of that army is unbreakable. Sure you can make them not unbreakable, but there's another 4 big things to kill and you have 2 or 3 turns of shooting, max. With a Storm Banner. Nope, I reckon this list will do fine for itself. Sure, magic will hurt, but it falls under the same category. 2 or 3 turns to live.
Ok, but I play 2k, so here's what it looks like at 2k;
Grey Seer, Bell, Power Scroll
Plague Priest, Furnace, Flail
60 Clanrats, Full Command
10 Stormvermin, Standard, Storm Banner, Warpfire Thrower
37 Plague Monks, Full Command, Flaming Banner
Hellpit Abomination
Hellpit Abomination
You may question the loss of a furnace over the bell, but the seer gives this army range and a way to get through chaff. In addition he can evaporate units like slann, teclis and whatnot with the 13th, while remaining vulnerable only to cannonfire. In addition, he makes that big chunk of rats that goes in the centre of this army unbreakable. That's something that's good. Means you have an epic tarpit. You can reform to show them your flank so they have to hack through all 60 before hitting the seer, while he rains spells from on high.
Now this list isn't without it's weaknesses. But I do think it's scary as shit, as I don't know many armies that could deal with that running across the board. Sure you could get yourself into a winning situation, but actually winning the game against something with so many points tied into such big unbreakable units?
Not something I'd like to try.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article. Read more!
Take more.
Armies with one big, super, not-maneouverable horde fail. They fail hard. Armies with one big, super, not-maneouverable horde with a high threat range win. Seriously. If your opponent only gets 200VPs by killing your support elements and you get 500 for taking out 2 units, you win. problem is against any opponent worth his salt that super horde is going nowhere before being hit by his whole army at once. So, how do we stop that? Simple really. Take more than one super unit. Wanna try dealing with 5 super units at once?
See, there's a certain amount of overkill I feel goes into deathstars. It's kind of like a tangent. At first the value seems to be increasing pretty rapidly, but you get to a certain point and then the distance between your values decrease, until it is barely noticeable. What I'm trying to get at here is more easily summed up in this diagram:
 |
| X is ability to pulp, Y is efficiency. |
The green line however is one of my deathstars. It does kill more than those units, yes. But it costs an awful lot more. Not necessarily a bad thing when VP denial is brought into it, as it means it denies those points. However at the top of the graph you can see one of those deathstars that the internet seems to love (the one that is 65% of your army in pts). Sure it'll crump everything in the game. But look how many wasted pts you're spending! In addition they're really easy to make do whatever the hell you want, because they're so blocky.
"Right ok Archy, but where are you going with this?"
Somewhere around here I reckon:
Grey Seer, Bell, Power Scroll
Plague Priest, Furnace, Flail
Plague Priest, Furnace, Flail
90 Clanrats, Full Command
10 Stormvermin, Standard, Storm Banner, Warpfire Thrower
25 Plague Monks, Full Command, Flaming Banner
25 Plague Monks, Full Command
Hellpit Abomination
Hellpit Abomination
2500
Now considering you get 3 cannons below 3k, what army can deal with those 5 big things marching toward them? In addition, like 1800pts of that army is unbreakable. Sure you can make them not unbreakable, but there's another 4 big things to kill and you have 2 or 3 turns of shooting, max. With a Storm Banner. Nope, I reckon this list will do fine for itself. Sure, magic will hurt, but it falls under the same category. 2 or 3 turns to live.
Ok, but I play 2k, so here's what it looks like at 2k;
Grey Seer, Bell, Power Scroll
Plague Priest, Furnace, Flail
60 Clanrats, Full Command
10 Stormvermin, Standard, Storm Banner, Warpfire Thrower
37 Plague Monks, Full Command, Flaming Banner
Hellpit Abomination
Hellpit Abomination
You may question the loss of a furnace over the bell, but the seer gives this army range and a way to get through chaff. In addition he can evaporate units like slann, teclis and whatnot with the 13th, while remaining vulnerable only to cannonfire. In addition, he makes that big chunk of rats that goes in the centre of this army unbreakable. That's something that's good. Means you have an epic tarpit. You can reform to show them your flank so they have to hack through all 60 before hitting the seer, while he rains spells from on high.
Now this list isn't without it's weaknesses. But I do think it's scary as shit, as I don't know many armies that could deal with that running across the board. Sure you could get yourself into a winning situation, but actually winning the game against something with so many points tied into such big unbreakable units?
Not something I'd like to try.
Hope you guys enjoyed the article. Read more!
A difficult place.
Hey folks. Sorry for the lack of activity. You see, I'm in a difficult place at the moment in regards to WHFB. I cannot make my mind up about my Skaven, and I have just restarted WM. So a lot is going through my head at the moment.
From here on I'm just typing down skaven ideas as I think them. Prepare for some incoherent rambling.
So I was thinking about my MSU army and it's main problems. Sure LD and the fact I put in too many WFTS, in addition to it folding like a paper bag in CC is a problem, but the big one is how easily it surrenders VPs. That's definitely the problem.
So how can I fix it? Well making VPs much harder to obtain is something Skaven can do tbh. Taking units of 50 skavenslaves is one way. Those things take forever to get through. Ok I thought, lets try out something of that nature.
2 Furnaces
3x50 Slaves
10 Stormvermin w/WFT + Storm Banner
2x37 Plague Monks w/FC. One unit has a Flame Banner
Hellpit
2 Warp Lightning Cannons
Ok sure, that works. No magic? Nope, no magic. Why? Well you see I figure the spells that will be damaging to this army are going through anyway. So I really don't care enough. Besides, there's enough models in this army to soak up a few dwellers (and my heroes and hellpit don't care about dwellers or purple sun).
Right ok, so it's got some protection but it's pretty damn vulnerable to shooting. The slave units aren't really going to do anything either are they? Just sit back and take a beating, hopefully staying alive till the end of the game to score me my 102 VPs. Hurm. I also think it's very fragile to shooting and the like. Let's see how we can fix that then.
Grey Seer on Bell w/Scroll
5 Units of 50 Skavenslaves w/music
40 clanrats w/shields + fc
2 Hellpits / 2WLC + 1 Hellpit
Rest on WFTs
Something of that nature most likely. This would sit back and just not give up VPs. This list would ideally not need to close with you. See, due to the way redirection works now it's not efficient (and spreads a lot of panic) to run MSU I feel. But if a MSU army gets its way I feel it'd rape face. So what do you need for MSU these days? Cheap hitty units that don't panic at the sight of their own skin. Honestly, I think you're looking for beastmen. Skaven's problem with it is LD and not having anything that can stand up in CC.
Ahem, anyway. This is why I believe I'm probably going to be better served going back to horde. To be honest it doesn't bother me at all, as any kind of skaven is good skaven.
So I'm thinking MSU skaven is definitely a viable build, but LD and the inability to maneouvre correctly really puts me off of it. So back to LD10 stubborn which the internet says is OP.
Ok so these lists are ordinarily very vulnerable to magic. So you can either protect your heroes and lords by being cheap, or by being survivable against it. Survivable for me is a Priest on Furnace (S5, I5 for dwellers or purple sun), a Seer on a Bell (S5, I5), a Warlord (90pts and S4, I7), Warlord on a rogre BB (S6, I7) etc. See these models are all pretty good, it just comes down to finding the most efficient, I feel.
Now armies like these (lots of big units), as I've already said, benefit from good LD. The problem is a 12" bubble isn't enough. Which means I'm probably going to take a Priest on a Furnace or a seer on a bell. But this raises a pressing concern, in that I'm horrifically vulnerable to war machine fire. While gutters can handle this pretty well, for 10 gutters I could have 2 units of 30 slaves. Ha! But what would you do with 2 units of 50 slaves? March them straight at your bastarding war machines, that's what. React or die. Chances are you wont kill my bell turn one (3 cannons vs a 4+ no shooting, and a 4+ ward, as well as 6 wounds on the bell and 3 on the seer) and turn 2 it's a maybe. Problem is war machines tend to be in the back 6" of the board. Putting a whole 30" between my units and them. Meaning a unit that walks will take till turn 3 to get there. That's not acceptable. You would need cavalry speeds to get there on turn 2, which is something skaven just can't do.
So it comes back to gutter runners. God damn it. These guys (while awesome) don't come cheap. At the price of almost 150 slaves for 15. Yeah, they're valuable. I reckon I'll probably need to put them in.
"But how is this army going to function?" I hear you say. Truth be told, I don't know yet. Those slave units might not be going anywhere ever, but I don't know how I'll kill anything either. Sure, the seer can do pretty well for himself, but I have a whole army to kill!
Or do I? See here's where it breaks down a bit. All I need to do is score double what my opponent scores. If my opponent is busy hacking down 102pt slave units for the game then I see this going pretty well for me indeed. Teeny tiny reward for a lot of effort. However this kind of army hinges monumentally on the general, which is why he needs to be so well protected. As I said the bell does this, but it does make him very attractive to cannonfire.
What else is attractive to cannonfire? Hellpits. Hurm. So they're in too I guess? I suppose they're not too easy to get points off of. And they can quite happily munch basic infantry while I let elite infantry chew the cud that is a block of 50 slaves. Oh and I'll need a BSB I suppose. Ok so lets have a look at how this army turned out.
Grey Seer on bell w/scroll
15 Gutter Runners
2 Hellpits
BSB w/ Storm Banner
5x 60 Slaves w/Musician
Gah, but I need a bell unit! Ok back up a bit then...
Grey Seer on bell w/scroll =475
15 Gutter Runners =270
2 Hellpits = 470
BSB w/ Storm Banner = 120
3x 60 Slaves w/Musician = 366
50 Slaves w/Musician = 108
40 Clanrats w/Shields + Full Command = 200
Something like that I suppose. But it looks so vulnerable and fragile. Ugh.
See, this is the problem I'm having with Skaven. I can't get them into a place where I'm happy with them.
Help?
P.s. Kudos if you read that. The ramblings of a madman.
Read more!
From here on I'm just typing down skaven ideas as I think them. Prepare for some incoherent rambling.
So I was thinking about my MSU army and it's main problems. Sure LD and the fact I put in too many WFTS, in addition to it folding like a paper bag in CC is a problem, but the big one is how easily it surrenders VPs. That's definitely the problem.
So how can I fix it? Well making VPs much harder to obtain is something Skaven can do tbh. Taking units of 50 skavenslaves is one way. Those things take forever to get through. Ok I thought, lets try out something of that nature.
2 Furnaces
3x50 Slaves
10 Stormvermin w/WFT + Storm Banner
2x37 Plague Monks w/FC. One unit has a Flame Banner
Hellpit
2 Warp Lightning Cannons
Ok sure, that works. No magic? Nope, no magic. Why? Well you see I figure the spells that will be damaging to this army are going through anyway. So I really don't care enough. Besides, there's enough models in this army to soak up a few dwellers (and my heroes and hellpit don't care about dwellers or purple sun).
Right ok, so it's got some protection but it's pretty damn vulnerable to shooting. The slave units aren't really going to do anything either are they? Just sit back and take a beating, hopefully staying alive till the end of the game to score me my 102 VPs. Hurm. I also think it's very fragile to shooting and the like. Let's see how we can fix that then.
Grey Seer on Bell w/Scroll
5 Units of 50 Skavenslaves w/music
40 clanrats w/shields + fc
2 Hellpits / 2WLC + 1 Hellpit
Rest on WFTs
Something of that nature most likely. This would sit back and just not give up VPs. This list would ideally not need to close with you. See, due to the way redirection works now it's not efficient (and spreads a lot of panic) to run MSU I feel. But if a MSU army gets its way I feel it'd rape face. So what do you need for MSU these days? Cheap hitty units that don't panic at the sight of their own skin. Honestly, I think you're looking for beastmen. Skaven's problem with it is LD and not having anything that can stand up in CC.
Ahem, anyway. This is why I believe I'm probably going to be better served going back to horde. To be honest it doesn't bother me at all, as any kind of skaven is good skaven.
So I'm thinking MSU skaven is definitely a viable build, but LD and the inability to maneouvre correctly really puts me off of it. So back to LD10 stubborn which the internet says is OP.
Ok so these lists are ordinarily very vulnerable to magic. So you can either protect your heroes and lords by being cheap, or by being survivable against it. Survivable for me is a Priest on Furnace (S5, I5 for dwellers or purple sun), a Seer on a Bell (S5, I5), a Warlord (90pts and S4, I7), Warlord on a rogre BB (S6, I7) etc. See these models are all pretty good, it just comes down to finding the most efficient, I feel.
Now armies like these (lots of big units), as I've already said, benefit from good LD. The problem is a 12" bubble isn't enough. Which means I'm probably going to take a Priest on a Furnace or a seer on a bell. But this raises a pressing concern, in that I'm horrifically vulnerable to war machine fire. While gutters can handle this pretty well, for 10 gutters I could have 2 units of 30 slaves. Ha! But what would you do with 2 units of 50 slaves? March them straight at your bastarding war machines, that's what. React or die. Chances are you wont kill my bell turn one (3 cannons vs a 4+ no shooting, and a 4+ ward, as well as 6 wounds on the bell and 3 on the seer) and turn 2 it's a maybe. Problem is war machines tend to be in the back 6" of the board. Putting a whole 30" between my units and them. Meaning a unit that walks will take till turn 3 to get there. That's not acceptable. You would need cavalry speeds to get there on turn 2, which is something skaven just can't do.
So it comes back to gutter runners. God damn it. These guys (while awesome) don't come cheap. At the price of almost 150 slaves for 15. Yeah, they're valuable. I reckon I'll probably need to put them in.
"But how is this army going to function?" I hear you say. Truth be told, I don't know yet. Those slave units might not be going anywhere ever, but I don't know how I'll kill anything either. Sure, the seer can do pretty well for himself, but I have a whole army to kill!
Or do I? See here's where it breaks down a bit. All I need to do is score double what my opponent scores. If my opponent is busy hacking down 102pt slave units for the game then I see this going pretty well for me indeed. Teeny tiny reward for a lot of effort. However this kind of army hinges monumentally on the general, which is why he needs to be so well protected. As I said the bell does this, but it does make him very attractive to cannonfire.
What else is attractive to cannonfire? Hellpits. Hurm. So they're in too I guess? I suppose they're not too easy to get points off of. And they can quite happily munch basic infantry while I let elite infantry chew the cud that is a block of 50 slaves. Oh and I'll need a BSB I suppose. Ok so lets have a look at how this army turned out.
Grey Seer on bell w/scroll
15 Gutter Runners
2 Hellpits
BSB w/ Storm Banner
5x 60 Slaves w/Musician
Gah, but I need a bell unit! Ok back up a bit then...
Grey Seer on bell w/scroll =475
15 Gutter Runners =270
2 Hellpits = 470
BSB w/ Storm Banner = 120
3x 60 Slaves w/Musician = 366
50 Slaves w/Musician = 108
40 Clanrats w/Shields + Full Command = 200
Something like that I suppose. But it looks so vulnerable and fragile. Ugh.
See, this is the problem I'm having with Skaven. I can't get them into a place where I'm happy with them.
Help?
P.s. Kudos if you read that. The ramblings of a madman.
Read more!
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